Errors-To: owner-tmbg-digest@tmbg.org Reply-To: tmbg-digest@tmbg.org Sender: owner-tmbg-digest@tmbg.org Precedence: bulk From: owner-tmbg-digest@tmbg.org To: tmbg-digest@tmbg.org Subject: tmbg-list Digest #2-72 tmbg-list Digest, Volume 2, Number 72 Tuesday, 12 March 1996 Today's Topics: Re: ?'s about Moxy F. and Pere Ubu so skip if you don't care My dream Borrowed Lyrics Bro. Blackwood TheyDay Re: Speculations on New Album Stuff Re: Borrowed Lyrics BTW, stoners are smart. . . Where's John? bootlegs Re: Speculations on New Album Hey, Mr. DJ, Wha' you say? Re: Faster WDTSS Re: BTW, stoners are smart. . . Re: Faster WDTSS Re: Misunderstood Lyric TMBG Video Tape Re: bootlegs Re: Where's John? Re: bootlegs A quick request. Re: Moxy Fruvous & Brian Doherty/David Yazbek (none) TMBG in TX? Please? simple question... don't get all snippy Whistling in the Dark Life alone as a HUGE TMBG Fan...*sniff* Re: Whistling in the Dark Administrivia: CHANGES!!!!! The digest volume and issue numbers have been set to reflect the year and day. This year is volume 2, the issue number should match the day of the year. The ftp server has been reconfigured. Now the _only_ way to get back archives is from ftp.tmbg.org. For all administrative issues, such as change of address, withdrawal from the list, etc., send a message to the following address: tmbg-digest-request@tmbg.org --------------------------------------------------------------------- The views expressed herein are those of the individual authors. --------------------------------------------------------------------- ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 11 Mar 1996 08:19:06 -0500 (EST) From: Alex Gershon Subject: Re: ?'s about Moxy F. and Pere Ubu so skip if you don't care On Sun, 10 Mar 1996 Bejezus@aol.com wrote: > Heysers to everyone who decided to read this. First, I just got the Moxy > album B-ville. It rocks up the house! So now I'm trying to figure out which > guy is which. I think I already figured out Dave and Jean, but does anyone > know which is Mike and which is Murray? Please give answers in reference to > pictures in B-ville. Also on the M.F. tip, has anyone translated the lyrics > to Morphee? I'm not sure what the picture is, but I can tell you that Murray is the guy with the long blonde hair...he plays the bass. Mike has the curly dark hair, and if I'm not mistaken, he sings Spiderman. I met all four of them here in Toronto ('cause they're from here)...they're all quite cool. Just so this message has some TMBG content...TMBG are much cooler!!! Alex ------------------------------ From: "BOBA FETT" Organization: anubis Date: Mon, 11 Mar 1996 10:07:02 EST Subject: My dream On Friday night I had the following summarized dream: I was in downtown Pittsburgh. Someone told me TMBG was playing that night. I bought a ticket. I found my self in my house in North Huntingdon, PA. I left my house and walked down the street(the guys didn't look like elves). In my neighbors yard, there was a big stage. My friend, Adam, then announced TMBG to the gathered small crowd. I walked to the front of the stage and waved at Flans. He (in the middle of playing The Guitar) waved back and accidently played the wrong chord when he resumed playing. I would have felt real bad, but I remembered that it was just a dream. After that song they played SPY. I was the only one who knew what they were doing when they pointed to the audience. After that they were done. I then found my self in my kitchen with Tony "MORE MONEY" Mamone and Mister John Flansburgh. Tony went to use my bathroom. My mom, who is a math tutor, tutored Flans in Calculus. Go Figure! That's Me, Boba Out! <^><^><^><^><^><^><^><^><^><^><^><^><^> -Matthew Ondrey, So.D. MJO5733@ANUBIS.WESTMORELAND.CC.PA.US "NO ONE UNDERSTANDS, NO ONE KNOWS MY PLAN" -- TMBG, MJO <_><_><_><_><_><_><_><_><_><_><_><_><_> ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 11 Mar 1996 10:44:23 -0500 (EST) From: Alex Gershon Subject: Borrowed Lyrics To continue the thread on borrowed lyrics, here are a few more that I though of: "It must be raining 'cause a man ain't supposed to cry...but I look up, and I don't see a cloud." I'm not sure which song that's from, but it is from some 60's or 70's rock tune. "The sound upon the roof is only water" That line is from some Mamas and The Papas tune, although it's been slightly altered in Their version. Am I crazy, or do others of you out there want to see John and John action figures?? If I walked in to a Toy's "R" Us ('round seven o'clock) and saw a John Flansburgh and John Linnell toys, I'd buy them...wouldn't you?? Maybe a playset of the JH tour stage set up...you know, the streetlights, park bench, Pearl backdrop. John and John can have little guitar and accordian acessories. You can have a concert with Them everyday! None of the shows would ever be sold out...you would always get front row seats...you could talk to the band after the show (although the conversation would be dull unless you had a good imagination)...and there would be no moshing!! I've gotta lay off the crack! Alex ------------------------------ From: "Rensink, Brenden - S" Subject: Bro. Blackwood Date: Mon, 11 Mar 96 07:47:00 P Who is bro. john blackwood? Becuase he is starting to annoy me!!! Especially when he types in his all caps thing and talks like he knows everything, (which he might), but I am getting just a bit annoyed. No offence to you,(john), but could we cut the caps? -+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+- Brenden - nednerB AKA - The Hypnotist of Ladies+ "You're free to come and goor talk like Kurtis Blow," TMBG "truth only exsists in the hearts of the men that embrace + it", me. + "Is it just me, or is it hot in +here"...."No brenden, it's just + you." + "very small rocks?"..."and what do you burn aapart from whitch's? MORE WITCHS!!" monty python TMBG-ENYA-BEATLES-DONAVON-REM-SIMON & GARFUNKLE-AKIRA-CCR- + THE WONDER STUFF-STEVEN DOLMATZ- BARE NAKED LADIES-VISITOR 3 MONTY PYTHON-RANMA1/2-SNL-... ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 11 Mar 1996 10:50:43 -0500 (EST) From: Craig Whyte Subject: TheyDay Ok, then that just shut down my only purpose in life... playing TMBG on the Radio every week. Maybe if I bribe Sinatra enough so we can switch shows... nah. BTW, "Fingertips" on Wednesday! Also, do any TMBG songs have the theme of Spring Break (I'm staying home over the break, so I'm doing my show as scheduled on 3/20). Any suggestions? Later, Craig GO MONMOUTH!!! ------------------------------ From: Russ Josephson x722 Date: Mon, 11 Mar 96 08:50:53 MST Subject: Re: Speculations on New Album ---------- X-Sun-Data-Type: text X-Sun-Data-Description: text X-Sun-Data-Name: text X-Sun-Content-Lines: 9 Yes, I heard TMBG in concert in June 1994 in Denver, CO. They played mostly stuff from John Henry, and announced then that the new album would be out soon. They wanted to polish the songs before committing them to the "final" album version. They weren't pleased with many of the early albums, as they recorded them before touring, and then came up with what they felt were better arrangements later on. ---------- X-Sun-Data-Type: default X-Sun-Data-Description: default X-Sun-Data-Name: russ X-Sun-Content-Lines: 7 ============================================================================= Russ Josephson russj@btc.adaptec.com Berthoud, Colorado, USA Embedded Systems Programmer "How come I can't see you in my mirror?" -- Tonio K "... not everyone is passionate about music ..." -- Joe Jackson "I took off the intellectuals, I put on They Must Be Giants" -- Anonymous ============================================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 11 Mar 96 12:27:25 EST From: apf@caess1.cae.aro.allied.com (Adam P. Fistler) Subject: Stuff Does anyone have the Snail Shell video somewhere on tape and willing to make a copy? If so have some stuff to trade or I will buy it off of you. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 11 Mar 1996 12:43:47 -0500 (EST) From: "Jeanette, the lost Warner sib" Subject: Re: Borrowed Lyrics Hey, I'd buy Linnell and Flans action figures..... maybe, since They were (ever so breifly, and not in person) in MMPR, They might be (hee hee) eligible to become honorary power rangers, and therefore, get Their own dolls........ On another note, I am listening to "Snail Dust" for the first time ever, and I love it soooooooooooooooooooooooooooo much! That and the new Hotel Detective are so great! I have dies and gone to heaven, and no you can't have my stereo! (thank you, Adam!!!! :* ) All I can remember about the "Man ain't supposed to cry" lyric was that it was one of those "Falsetto" songs.... I can remeber the lyrics.... It must be ra-ain drops So many rain drops It must be Ra-a-ain drops Falling from my ey-eyes Falling from my eyes .... Oh, no, it can't be teardrops, 'Cause a man ain't supposed to cry..... Ok, that's it...... okILoveYouByeBye!!! 'Nette *#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#* "It must be inordinately taxing to be such a boob." "You have no idea." - Pinky & the Brain *------------------------------------------------------------------- "Done someone wrong, and I fear that it was me" - TMBG, "Sapphire Bullets" *------------------------------------------------------------------- Jeanette C. Frost Trenton State College Frost@trenton.edu #*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*# ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 11 Mar 1996 13:43:12 -0500 (EST) From: Joseph A Oettinger Subject: BTW, stoners are smart. . . . . .because we don't believe in that puritan crap (keep your legs crossed) ethic, and we aren't taken in by that anti-drug propagandist bullsh*t. Get bent or go live with the Reagan's. ------------------------------ From: PRINE_A@whittier.edu Date: Mon, 11 Mar 1996 12:10:52 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Where's John? Hello my fellow fans of the greatest band on earth! I'm new on the list and have been reading your top ten lists and other various posts for the past few days and have found them quite delightful. I'm ver excited to have found a forum to vent my passion for TMBG. I have a question about this list though. Why don't the John's or other band members ever write, or do they? I've been on other mailing lists where the band members respond to questions and share crazy stories of their concerts. Are the John's just to busy to respond to us, the loyal fans? This seems to be a cool list but it would be oh so much better if the John's took part too. That's just my thoughts on the matter. I must say that I'm extremely jealous of all of you who write about seeing the Giants on the east coast, and when are they coming to CA? I'm going through withdrawl because I haven't seen the Giants in over a year. I may sound like a whiner but I just want my tMBg! that's all. Amy T. Prine_A@whittier.edu ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 11 Mar 1996 15:36:18 -0500 (EST) From: John Henry Subject: bootlegs Hello, I know that every week, someone comes on here, and asks if anyone has any bootlegs to trade, and, to some people, it's annoying. If this applies to you, I'm sorry. As for everyone else, I'm looking to trade for some They bootlegs, if there are any available. Thanks for your support. Brendan Brendan Sullivan, Palindrome, Navillus Nadnerb bs069875@sjuphil.sju.edu 1-610-660-2464 Well, it isn't the NCAA, but the NIT is just as good. GO HAWKS! ------------------------------ Subject: Re: Speculations on New Album Date: Mon, 11 Mar 1996 15:12:29 -0600 (CST) From: Chris Bongaarts In the immortal words of Russ Josephson x722: >Yes, I heard TMBG in concert in June 1994 in Denver, CO. >They played mostly stuff from John Henry, and announced then that >the new album would be out soon. > >They wanted to polish the songs before committing them to the >"final" album version. They weren't pleased with many of the early albums, >as they recorded them before touring, and then came up with what >they felt were better arrangements later on. If memory serves (which seems is less and less often these days) JH was recorded in January 1994 and released September 13th, 1994. Most of the JH songs they played at the April 1994 show in Peoria were in more or less their final form. FWIW, I dig the faster WDTSS much more than the recorded version. ============================================ Chris.Bongaarts-1@umn.edu Chris Bongaarts My opinions are my own, http://umn.edu/~cab Univ. of Minnesota and they are right. CBongo on EFnet IRC (#umn) GCS d-- s:+ a22 C+++ ULHSX++++$ P++++ L++ E W++ N++ K+++ w-- !O M+ !V PS+ PE+ Y-- PGP-- t+ !5 !X R tv b+ DI++++ D+ G++ e h- !r y? [GeekCode 3.0] ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 11 Mar 1996 16:11:58 -0500 (EST) From: Benjamin Hauck Subject: Hey, Mr. DJ, Wha' you say? Ben or Been is here until Wednesday, then ***off to North Carolina for spring break with Papa!!!!!*** Just a'wondering . . . Does anybody ever hear this in "Hey, Mr. DJ": "You know I told you 'bout the *Wurlitzer* Dress" ??? I know it actually says: "You know I told you 'bout the world, it's address" (or something very close to that) Any other bad hearers? Let's hook up!!! Adieu, Ben or Been ------------------------------ From: Russ Josephson x722 Date: Mon, 11 Mar 96 14:20:13 MST Subject: Re: Faster WDTSS ---------- X-Sun-Data-Type: text X-Sun-Data-Description: text X-Sun-Data-Name: text X-Sun-Content-Lines: 14 Chris Bongaarts said: FWIW, I dig the faster WDTSS much more than the recorded version. My reply-- YES, YES, YES, the fast WDTSS is much better than the CD single version. I was disappointed after getting the CD single for Christmas :( I've only heard the faster version from the "dial-a-song-online" that used to be on the old TMBG web page. It's great, even if in lo-fidelity mono sound. If anyone wants it, I can send it to them. ---------- X-Sun-Data-Type: default X-Sun-Data-Description: default X-Sun-Data-Name: russ X-Sun-Content-Lines: 7 ============================================================================= Russ Josephson russj@btc.adaptec.com Berthoud, Colorado, USA Embedded Systems Programmer "How come I can't see you in my mirror?" -- Tonio K "... not everyone is passionate about music ..." -- Joe Jackson "I took off the intellectuals, I put on They Must Be Giants" -- Gloria ============================================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 11 Mar 1996 17:07:14 -0500 (EST) From: "Jeanette, the lost Warner sib" Subject: Re: BTW, stoners are smart. . . On Mon, 11 Mar 1996, Joseph A Oettinger wrote: > . . .because we don't believe in that puritan crap (keep your legs > crossed) ethic, and we aren't taken in by that anti-drug propagandist > bullsh*t. Get bent or go live with the Reagan's. > Ex-CUSE me?!? You're destroying your body and you think that you're SMART? Geez, maybe those drugs have already killed your brain. WAKE UP (and smell the catfood) ALREADY!! Not all anti-substance people are "Puritans"; we just want to enjoy life to it's fullest, which means we don't try and shorten it. Get a life. Nette _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ < >< ><@><.>< >< > "..... and a di di di, dah dah dah, and whatever the hell else you wanna put in there....." - Martin Short *--------------------------------------------------------------- "I hit my head; now I'm left-handed" - Flanny, "Unsupervised.." *--------------------------------------------------------------- Jeanette Frost, aka Carola Iris, who hasn't been quoted...... but is convinced that it IS possible to walk through earwax! <_><_><_><_><_><_><_><_><_><_><_><_><_><_><_><_><_><_><_><_><_> ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 11 Mar 1996 17:12:22 -0500 (EST) From: Alex Gershon Subject: Re: Faster WDTSS On Mon, 11 Mar 1996, Russ Josephson x722 wrote: > I've only heard the faster version from the "dial-a-song-online" that > used to be on the old TMBG web page. It's great, even if in lo-fidelity > mono sound. If anyone wants it, I can send it to them. In case you weren't aware of this, the version of WDTSS from the "dial-a-song-online" was taken from Live in NYC. This is also true for the Ana Ng version found in the same place. Just though you'ed like to know. Alex ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 8 Mar 1996 14:27:46 -0500 (EST) From: Alex Gershon Subject: Re: Misunderstood Lyric On Fri, 8 Mar 1996, Keith Hyman wrote: > > I know They usually have printed lyrics with Their CDs, but I haven't > studied them all. Ennyweigh, I mostly listen in the car. So here's my > misunderstood phrase of late: > > In "Twisting," where They sing (apparently) "She's not your satellite," and > though I know this to be true, for some reason, I hear "She's not your > samurai!" Heh. Ennywon else? Wow...that's not bad!! I'm afraid I never heard it that way, but in Santa's Beard, I used to think They were singing "lately she's been humming cheese songs..." But I'm feeling much better now! Alex ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 11 Mar 1996 17:46:53 -0500 (EST) From: John Murray Subject: TMBG Video Tape I know that they are a video tape out but , does any one know a store that has one in the DC/Northern Virgina area? I am on Spring Break and I am home where there are actually some stores. Also while I was looking for the above mentioed tape I found a tape called the best of 120 minutes and it listed Ana Ng on it. Have other pople seen this? any help is appriated later Person Man / John Murray -- I left my real sig on a machine I cann't get at so here is a... T E M P O A R A Y S I G N A T U R E For ____John_Murray______ Email __jmurray@vt.edu__ Expires JAN FEB [MAR] APR MAY JUN JUL AUG SEP NOV DEC Day __17__ 1995 [1996] 1997 Wity Quote __"there's very little meat in these gym mats"__ ------------------------------ From: Ruprecht76@aol.com Date: Mon, 11 Mar 1996 20:03:07 -0500 Subject: Re: bootlegs > I know that every week, someone comes on here, and asks if anyone >has any bootlegs to trade I've got an idea, everybody who's got bootlegs to offer e-mail telling me what you have and what you'd like and I'll put together a web page that people can contact you at... REMEMBER: send it directly to "hallofheds@aol.com" (this is not the address that is sending so don't just use the reply), not the list, I repeat not the list, but of course if this doesn't sound like a good idea you can go on cluttering the list me who is astonished by how much work I give me in the making of pages and other such evil devices ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 11 Mar 1996 20:10:22 -0600 From: jchaffer@tmbg.org (Jonathan Chaffer) Subject: Re: Where's John? >I have a question about this list though. Why don't the John's or other band >members ever write, or do they? I've been on other mailing lists where the >band members respond to questions and share crazy stories of their concerts. >Are the John's just to busy to respond to us, the loyal fans? This seems to >be a cool list but it would be oh so much better if the John's took part too. >That's just my thoughts on the matter. Here's the info on the subject from the TMBG FAQ: > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > > 5. Do the Johns know about the mailing list? Do the Johns know about the > alt.music.tmbg newsgroup? Do the Johns read this list? Do the Johns > read the newsgroup? Can I talk to John and John via e-mail? > > Do the Johns know about the mailing list? > > Yes. > > Do the Johns know about the alt.music.tmbg newsgroup? > > Yes. > > Do the Johns read the list? > > No. > > Do the Johns read the newsgroup? > > No. > > Can I talk to John and John via e-mail? > > No. > > Thanks to Chris Bongaarts . > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- +------------------------------+-------------+----------------------+ | jonathan.chaffer@cmich.edu | JC(A+R) | jchaffer@tmbg.org | +------------------------------+------+------+----------------------+ | http://www.tmbg.org/~jchaffer/ | Member DNRC O- | +-------------------------------------+-----------------------------+ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 11 Mar 1996 20:37:31 -0600 From: jchaffer@tmbg.org (Jonathan Chaffer) Subject: Re: bootlegs >I've got an idea, everybody who's got bootlegs to offer e-mail telling me >what you have and what you'd like and I'll put together a web page that >people can contact you at... REMEMBER: send it directly to >"hallofheds@aol.com" (this is not the address that is sending so don't just >use the reply), not the list, I repeat not the list, but of course if this >doesn't sound like a good idea you can go on cluttering the list Such a page already exists. In fact, there are two. Harlan Landes has a list of concert tape traders: http://tamos.gmu.edu/~harlan/tmbg/trade.html Adam Fistler has a list of people willing to trade for free: http://www.clearlight.com/~dresko/trade/ Enjoy. +------------------------------+-------------+----------------------+ | jonathan.chaffer@cmich.edu | JC(A+R) | jchaffer@tmbg.org | +------------------------------+------+------+----------------------+ | http://www.tmbg.org/~jchaffer/ | Member DNRC O- | +-------------------------------------+-----------------------------+ ------------------------------ From: Brooksie2@aol.com Date: Mon, 11 Mar 1996 20:42:09 -0500 Subject: A quick request. Before the whole "drug/no drug" discussion erupts again: (If you want to respond to me, feel free to do so _privately_.) The decision to take controlled substances is a _personal_ one. And whether someone does or doesn't matters nothing to me, because I like to be accepting of people if they are accepting of me. Personally, I don't do any drugs, but for that caffeine and the nicotine. I don't tell people that they should drink coffee, and I certainly try very hard to make my smoking habit as inoffensive as possible. I don't think that we here on a TMBG list should be making personal attacks on, or rash judgements about, one another. People should have the right to live their lives as they wish, so long as, in the course of doing so, they don't infringe on someone else's right to do the same. So, I'm going to go listen to some TMBG now, but not too loud, so that my neighbors don't have to share in the experience. Love, Brooks. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 11 Mar 1996 21:24:40 -0500 From: nmcgrath@world.std.com (Nancy McGrath) Subject: Re: Moxy Fruvous & Brian Doherty/David Yazbek From a thread started by : > > Heysers to everyone who decided to read this. First, I just got the Mox > > album B-ville. It rocks up the house! So now I'm trying to figure out which > > guy is which. I think I already figured out Dave and Jean, but does anyone > > know which is Mike and which is Murray? Please give answers in reference to > > pictures in B-ville. Also on the M.F. tip, has anyone translated the lyrics > > to Morphee? > If you look at the back page of the Bargainville CD, in the top photo, the FruFour are, in order: Dave (blonde hair, now crew-cut); Jean (long, dark, wavy locks); Murray (long blond hair, now shorter); and Mike (dark hair). Definitely an awesome album worth seeking out, as is their second, WOOD. As for the lyrics to "Morphee", I am afraid I don't have them at hand, but they get posted periodically on alt.music.moxy-fruvous. If you like TMBG and Moxy, then David Yazbek is a sure bet!! He's performing this Wednesday, 3/13, at Brownies, a club in NYC on Avenue A between 10th and 11th. Show starts at about 10 pm. Don't miss it; this guy is going places. BTW, Brian Doherty backs him on drums. Yazbek has a fantastic album (THE LAUGHING MAN) coming out on W.A.R. Records on Monday, 3/19. Nancy McGrath nmcgrath@world.std.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 11 Mar 1996 21:49:36 -0500 (EST) From: "DAVID A. MEYERSON" > From: "John E. Neely" > > Is anyone else extremly annonyed that there are only 2 TMBG shirts in > XXL? AMEN MY BROTHER!!!!!!!!!! TESTIFY!!!!!!! that really annoyed me too. and it turned out that the Stamps T-shirt in XXL was made on really thin cotton unlike one of the Dial-a-song t-shirts i got that's only XL but made on better material. > Does anyone know if there is any chance of getting the others in > big sizes? no chance. sucks don't it? discrimination against big people is not nice. daniel (17 swm, going to U of Chicago in the fall and hope to see at least one more TMBG show before i get there) ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 11 Mar 1996 21:25:28 -0600 From: jenna@onramp.net (Jenna Davis) Subject: TMBG in TX? Please? Anybody know when (if) TMBG are coming to Texas? Dallas is preferred, but I'm willing to drive to Austin, Houston or San Antonio if need be. I'm jonsin' hard, haven't seen the Johns since the last show at the Majestic. Any info is very very much appreciated... ________________ Jenna Davis jenna@onramp.net "If love isn't forever, and it's not the weather, then hand me my leather..." -Tori Amos ------------------------------ From: Naidee@aol.com Date: Tue, 12 Mar 1996 00:25:23 -0500 Subject: simple question... don't get all snippy I was wondering how often the songs are switched on the dail-a song. And why does this drug thing something of such a personal nature even become such a reoccurring issue on this list. love you all mo-pet ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 11 Mar 1996 22:31:27 -0800 From: gaufred@leland.Stanford.EDU (Kasey Hicks) Subject: Whistling in the Dark A debate cropped up on the newsgroup recently regarding the meaning of the phrase "whistling in the dark," part of which I reproduce here: Francesca Lynn Parker wrote: >what my brain can't seem to kick into gear to figure out is whether this >is a common phrase. Someone else wrote: >It's an old expression for *don't have a clue*. You just don't get it so >you're *whistling in the dark*. Timothy Clark wrote: >I thought *whistling in the dark* was a phrase used when someone is trying >to reassure themselves in an >uncomfortable or potentially dangerous >situation. How i pictured it was someone's walking down a dark street late >>at night whistling for reassurance, sort of looking nonchalant while >going about a situation that's a bit unnerving... Tom Beres wrote: >I have always heard it in the context of 'haven't got a clue'. I think >the picture being painted is that the person has >no clue, i.e., is >figuratively in the dark and whistling, hoping the answer comes to him >(rather than him finding >the answer). First of all, none of the participants in the debate had it quite right, and so I felt duty bound to set the record straight. Then, in the course of doing so, I started thinking about the way in which the song capitalizes on the different folds of meaning in the phrase. For anyone who is interested, my full response follows: >Actually, if you combine the senses of "haven't got a clue" and "trying to >reassure yourself," you hit on it: something like "haven't got a clue that >you haven't got a prayer." The idea is that someone who is whistling in >the dark is in denial about the gravity of his or her situation, that they >are comforting themselves without warrant or probable efficacy, e.g., >%Those who believe in an eventual scenario in which the righteous are >rewarded for their virtues and consoled for the injustices visited upon >them by the wicked are just whistling in the dark%. Pollyannas whistle in >the dark (though not everyone who whistles in the dark is necessarily a >Pollyanna; one may be simply deluded or careless without being rabidly >optimistic). > >Thus, "A man came up to me and said, / 'I'd like to change your mind / By >hitting it with a rock,' he said, / 'Though I am not unkind.' / We laughed >at his little joke / And then I happily walked away / And hit my head on >the wall of the jail / Where the two of us live today": the speaker does >not treat his predicament with the dread it calls for, and promptly >collides with reality (that he hits his head also implies that it is >literally dark, lending vividness to the expression). Note that both the >speaker and the man with the rock inhabit the same jail--in fact, the jail >seems to end up being, or at least being analogous to, the rock with which >the man proposes to change the speaker's mind in the first place, as it >does hit him in the "mind," and it is undoubtedly made of rock. The >suggestion seems to be that no amount of pop psychology ("...be you, / Be >what you're like, / Be like yourself") can override the grim physical >constraints of being a person, subject to failure, disappointment, and >injury. After all, the inane affirmations are only something the speaker >(and the woman who has them "written across her scalp") has "often been >told"; they do not seem to accord with his actual experience. > >But the situation is a little more complicated than that. If we retrace >our steps a bit, to the beginning of the song, we are able to trace the >steps that lead to a typical TMBG paradox loop. The woman wants to poison >the speaker's mind "with wrong ideas that appeal" to him. Now, this can >stand as a partial but accurate definition of the concept of "whistling in >the dark": the ideas with which one soothes one's nerves when one is >w.i.t.d. are appealing, and they are, by virtue of the expression's >implications, wrong. So, if we equate these ideas with those recounted in >the inscription on the woman's scalp (as the context certainly invites us >to do), i.e., that it is just fine to know how to do only one thing well, >as that is all anyone can do, and that one should therefore be satisified >with one's limitations, everything fits together--so far. The twist comes >with "And so I'm having a wonderful time / But I'd rather be whistling in >the dark." If one is doing the things described up to this point, >presumably one %is% w.i.t.d.; one is "having a wonderful time," so one >must be deluding oneself, and yet one sets the concept of w.i.t.d. apart >and posits it as an ideal alternative. What gives? > >Searching for a logical explication would be perverse, of course, >considering that the song's effect relies in large part on just the sense >of dislocation and non sequitur in question. One reading is somewhat >irresistible to me, however: the speaker knows how to do only one thing >well, and that is w.i.t.d., therefore the speaker knows he is w.i.t.d., >therefore w.i.t.d. is ineffectual for the speaker, and therefore the >speaker can never really be like himself, as he is incapable of doing even >the one thing he "knows how" to do. "Having a wonderful time" takes on an >ironic tone in this reading, and suggests that the very prescriptions for >successfully w.i.t.d. undermine that operation by the mere fact of >acknowledging it. That the words are written across the woman's scalp, if >read figuratively, implies that she too has hit her head on the >wall of her inept philosophy, and bears the scars to prove it. Of course, >being the words that would have induced her to that catastrophe in the >first place, they initiate yet another loop of illogic. Anyone who has bothered to read this far is warmly invited to offer his or her thoughts on my suggestions. Kasey "I say the plan becomes null and void once we find out we got a rat in the house." ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 11 Mar 1996 23:34:07 -0700 (MST) From: Joyce Frost Subject: Life alone as a HUGE TMBG Fan...*sniff* Anyone have any suggestions for me, I long to share my love of TMBG with someone, but my bestfriend/roomate and my other bestfriend/boyfriend both hate it. Also my other friends greatly dislike Them. No one in this hick town seems to appriciate Them. Also, every time one of my friends gets into my car they take out my tape and put in something else. I am too friendly to push my music on anyone, but I long for a companion to share TMBG's wonderful music with. As much as I love sitting in my dorm room and blaring TMBG on my stereo singing it at the top of my lungs, I long to share this appreciation with someone else... *Enuf Whining* I hope no one minds my plea... -helpless and seeking someone to appreciate TMBG with...*POUT* j/k-sorta -Joyce:) "Sad, sad, sad, sad, why must I be sad? The rows of Dandelions growing all around me. Why must I be sad?" -TMBG "Existance is futile." -Joyce Frost ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 12 Mar 1996 00:14:11 -0700 (MST) From: Joyce Frost Subject: Re: Whistling in the Dark Ok, the message I am replying to was way too long to include in this, so for those of you who didn't read the original, it was an indept explanation of "Whistling in the Dark", which happens to be one of my faves. Anyways, back to the subject. I just want to point out that it seemed rather ironic to be reading a very logical explanation of a TMBG song because for me my explanations of TMBG songs often reside in Joyce-Logic which to tell the truth is a logic few people can understand. I myself don't even quite follow a good percentage of the time. So I am just curious, does anyone else see the irony in this? Or am I just blathering on again... -Joyce "We could be sleeping in the flowers, we could sleep all afternoon..." -TMBG "Irony rules my life...and believe me someone up there is laughing..." -Joyce Frost(surely I am not the first to have said at least the part about irony, but I am the only I know of...) ------------------------------ End of tmbg-list Digest #2-72 *****************************