Errors-To: owner-tmbg-digest@tmbg.org Reply-To: tmbg-digest@tmbg.org Sender: owner-tmbg-digest@tmbg.org Precedence: bulk From: owner-tmbg-digest@tmbg.org To: tmbg-digest@tmbg.org Subject: tmbg-list Digest #3-279 tmbg-list Digest, Volume 3, Number 279 Tuesday, 7 October 1997 Today's Topics: Re: TMBG: Somethin to do if youre bored! Re: TMBG: More MP3s Non-TMBG: A word about drugs Re: TMBG: drug influenced? TMBG: Music videos TMBG: St. Louis TMBG: Re: DC show TMBG: interps TMBG: Misc. stuff... Re: TMBG: interps Re: TMBG: "Weird" Musicians Re: TMBG: interps TMBG: : tootsie roll pops Re: TMBG: interps Re: Re: TMBG: Kids Re: TMBG: interps Re: TMBG: Kids Re: TMBG: Kids TMBG: The Sullen Moon and Other Things Re: TMBG: Re: DC show TMBG: I know what you mean .... Re: TMBG: interps Re: TMBG: interps TMBG: Fringes on the Nightgown Administrivia: If you wish to unsubscribe from this mailing send mail to tmbg-digest-request@tmbg.org for instructions on how to be automatically removed. --------------------------------------------------------------------- The views expressed herein are those of the individual authors. --------------------------------------------------------------------- tmbg-list is digested with Digest 3.3d (John Relph ). ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Message-ID: <34389D61.189CB351@deathsdoor.com> Date: Mon, 06 Oct 1997 18:12:18 +1000 From: Vester Subject: Re: TMBG: Somethin to do if youre bored! Mark Muggli wrote: (snip snip) > Don't forget about AKA Driver even though it's cheap they don't say > "AKA > Driver." Wasn't that due to legal probs? -- Steven Lawrance ------------------------------ Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19971006073003.006a101c@130.127.28.14> Date: Mon, 06 Oct 1997 07:30:03 -0400 From: Adam Tyner Subject: Re: TMBG: More MP3s The reason it was shut down was that there were complete songs from the albums in MP3 format, which the RIAA highly disapproves of, and they have a legal right to shut any site that does that down. -Adam At 09:48 PM 10/5/97 -0700, you wrote: > >Actually, the reason the Factory Homepage was shut down was due to the Recording >Association of America or something. They threw a fit because of SOMEthing... and put >the kabash on the page. I talked to TMBG (or a TMBG rep) and he (or she) said that the >Johns didn't even know the page existed... > >-- >Vladimir Drakul -- http://www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/Heights/7343/ >******************************************************************* >"...so the room must listen to me filibuster vigilantly..." > -They Might Be Giants > >"How do YOU know about my beard growing escapade?!" > -Guybrush Threepwood > >"An eye for an eye only makes the world blind." > -Mahatma Ghandi > > /----=========================================================----\ http://www.awod.com/gallery/rwav/ctyner/ The home of He-Man, "Weird Al", Yoo-Hoo, Killer Tomatoes, and more! ctyner@awod.com O- MiSTie #67,326 ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 06 Oct 1997 10:12:33 -0500 From: Chris Combs Subject: Non-TMBG: A word about drugs Message-id: <3.0.3.16.19971006101233.3377a6ea@po.muohio.edu> > i have done quite alot of drugs for someone my age. I didn't do it because > i was insecure, or because of warped groupthink, i did it because i was > curious at first, and because i liked it afterward. I just wanted to comment on this post. I would just like to say that in my personal life I know somebody who shares the same sentiments with this poster. He says drugs are only for people who can handle them, and that he can. Nevermind that he was stupid enough to have marijuana in his pocket as he came into school one day, let alone having smoked it in the car on the way there, or getting caught, and having to "leave" school for about three months. In a nutshell (and not making any judgements about the original poster), this person could not possibly function in society. All of us (his friends) refer to him as "the complete idiot." Another person wrote a charming editorial on LSD for a weak underground paper. In it he proposed that the government mandate who can and who cannot handle the use of LSD, and give it out accordingly. I'm sorry, but if you honestly think this is a good idea, you must be on something right now (as he was when he wrote it). Oh, and nevermind me. I am biased, having lost too many friends to drug use. * ---------------------------------------------------------- Chris Combs a.k.a. Piglet Goatboy formerly@assassinate -={MPFT}=- -={CAS}=- -={OINK!}=- http://www.muc.muohio.edu/~goatboy/ * ---------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 06 Oct 1997 09:30:11 -0400 (EDT) From: Josh Woodward Subject: Re: TMBG: drug influenced? Message-id: On Sun, 5 Oct 1997, Lawrence P Solomon wrote: > > True, but haven't They said that Sleeping in the Flowers is a song about > > getting high? > > actually, the quote is: > > "This song is not about getting totally high." > -John Flansburgh, 6/18/94 And somewhat related, "This song was inspired by a song that was written under the influence of drugs." -John Flansburgh, too many dates to mention * ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Josh Woodward, Comp. Sci, BGSU joshw@mail.bgsu.edu Web Site and Tape List: http://www.dc-adnet.com/joshw/ "Knee deep in the motel tub, Reba dangle ladle from her lip, dip, sip." ------------------------------ Message-ID: <3438EC7A.45CE@nmt.edu> Date: Mon, 06 Oct 1997 07:49:47 -0600 From: Nick Wolf Subject: TMBG: Music videos Anyone know of any sites where I can get the full music videos in any particular format? This includes computer files not vhs tapes. :) ------------------------------ From: TheyMBG@aol.com Date: Mon, 6 Oct 1997 10:39:36 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <971006103624_1477104303@emout12.mail.aol.com> Subject: TMBG: St. Louis Hey all... As you may or may not know... I live in Kansas City, so the St. Louis concert is really tempting me.. all my Giant experiences save one have involved a drive of at least 6 hours... but I always went with friends and now I'm all alone. I had pretty much let it go when the Denominator posted about his trip heading there, which I was really impressed by.. KC was about 6 hours for me and St. Louis is about 4 more. So I may end up going after all, cutting half my foundations class which I'm sure Mr. Fleming (http://members.tripod.com/~kcaistudent/index.html haha!) won't like one little bit. So my offer is to Mr. D or others.. anyone making the trip coming through KC that can give me a friendly lift I gladly offer free lodging in a small 4th floor apartment that I grudgingly call home. Maybe even breakfast, if you're lucky.. but I do request everyone be on their merry way by noon the next day.. I have class ya know. here's hopin'! Heather p.s. It might be relavent to note that my apartment is also a menagerie.. so if you are allergic to cats (Spinnst and Merlyn), or by some odd chance frogs (Figment)... that may pose a problem. ------------------------------ From: mjames@envy.loyola.edu (Matthew James) Message-Id: <9710061523.AA02766@envy.loyola.edu> Subject: TMBG: Re: DC show Date: Mon, 6 Oct 1997 11:23:33 -0400 (EDT) > Is there a group of people from the list getting together for the DC > show? My Husband is going to be out of town and I don't want to go > alone. > > Nancy Phil Moss and I will be at the show. We both wear glasses and Phil has a knack for speaking with a Liverpool accent. I don't know if anyone else is going with us as of yet. Who all is going? Bye. Matt -- Matt James mjames@greed.loyola.edu Loyola College in Baltimore, MD Bruce Campbell Gazette: www.bcgazette.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 6 Oct 1997 11:27:37 -0500 (CDT) From: Tara Lynne Weber <00085244@bigred.unl.edu> Subject: TMBG: interps Message-ID: > Tarnished Silence responds: > Nope. It's about (as far as perceive it, which may not be right) > death. Very nice interp! Sounds very plausible, considering how death-obsessed They seem to be (but, of course, in a strangely happy, bouncy way, which is one of the reasons they're so cool). I personally have always thought of Nightgown as one of those songs that I didn't really want to analyze, just because I have this strange, inexplicable attachment to it. (NOTE: I am NOT trying to start one of those ugly arguments about whether or not it's appropriate to analyze TMBG songs. Besides, I am an English major who has been reading a lot of reader-response theory lately, so of *course* I'm not going to say there's anything wrong with personal interps. :) OK, I'm rambling. Anyway, I've always thought that "Where Your Eyes Don't Go" is kinda about death too. More specifically, I think it's written from the perspective of someone who's neurotically obsessed with death, who sees it lurking around every corner. (for instance, "Should you worry when the skull head is in front of you, or is it worse because it's always waiting where your eyes don't go?" is sort of like asking, "which is worse: coming face to face with death, or going through your everyday life not knowing when it's coming?") Hmmmm...you know, reader-response theory says that personal readings of texts, though valid, probably say more about the reader than the author and his or her actual intentions. Does this mean we're all a bunch of neurotic, twisted individuals? :) Wow, that was really long. I'm sorry! I think I'll shut up now... --Tara (not the new Tara who plays the electric bagpipes, but the old, boring one) -- Tara Weber 00085244@bigred.unl.edu, Ondine@tmbg.org http://members.tripod.com/~TaraW "We want everybody to have a good time, but we're not on a rock hero trip." --John Flansburgh "It's more of a rock gyro trip." --John Linnell ****MSTie #74191, TMBGer #38978**** ------------------------------ From: Happyfroot@aol.com Date: Mon, 6 Oct 1997 14:39:36 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <971006143755_-328243691@emout06.mail.aol.com> Subject: TMBG: Misc. stuff... >>pondering the eternal question of how many licks it takes to get to the tootsie-roll >>center of a tootsie pop. It's 521. Do not question this approximation. (It is only an appoximation because the center of a Tootsie-roll pop isn't always in the center, as one test, the answer was none seeing that the Tootsie thing inside was exposed.) >>True, but haven't They said that Sleeping in the Flowers is a song about >>getting high? "Heres a song that wasn't written under the influence of drugs but it was inspired by a song that was probably written under the influence of drugs. But I'm just guessing, just guessing." -John Flansburg >>aside from all the freeky people trying to pick me up... yes, especially those two >>airforce guys... AaaCK!! The "freeky people" are nice once you get to know them, and some of the air force guys I saw scared the crap out of me!!! Someone also mentioned something about the drug Morphine, didn't TMBG open for the band called Morphine? Hatch Shell '96! WOOHOO! I loved them both live! Jason "Our parents have come to everyone of these Boston shows...You don't get comfortable swearing around your parents until you're in front of 2,000 people...where the f*ck have you guys been?" - John Flansburg ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 6 Oct 1997 15:24:22 -0400 (EDT) From: "Eric Webber (EIN tech)" Subject: Re: TMBG: interps Message-Id: On Mon, 6 Oct 1997, Tara Lynne Weber wrote: > Does this mean we're all a bunch of neurotic, twisted individuals? :) > I think that sums it up pretty well. * ---------------------------------- Eric Webber EIN Technician 412.622.1944 webbere@clpgh.org ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 06 Oct 1997 14:38:08 -0700 From: Chad Maloney Subject: Re: TMBG: "Weird" Musicians Message-id: <34395A40.DE7@rosevc.rose-hulman.edu> Kim Justice wrote: > > The possible king of weird would be Captain Beefheart on his "Trout Mask > Replica" LP, circa 1969. One listen to "orange claw hammer", and you'll > never be the same. And Rocket Morton is a great bass player =) But yeah, Beefheart is definitely strange... -- -====================================================================- Chad Maloney | CMMalone@softart.com | WWW homeless as of late... -====================================================================- Software Engineer | Every little child learns, if you can't see Software Artistry | dreams your eyes are blind - Fly, Moxy Fruvous -====================================================================- ------------------------------ Message-Id: Date: Mon, 6 Oct 97 16:02 EDT From: kbrodbec@remcen.ehhs.cmich.edu (Kirsten Brodbeck) Subject: Re: TMBG: interps >OK, I'm rambling. Anyway, I've always thought that "Where Your Eyes Don't >Go" is kinda about death too. More specifically, I think it's written >from the perspective of someone who's neurotically obsessed with death, >who sees it lurking around every corner. Maybe.. I never thought of "Where Your Eyes Don't Go" as being that specific. I *do* think it's one of the most paranoia-inducing songs I've ever heard. I mean, for all you know, there *could* be a filthy scarecrow following you around, and you just can't see it.. ;) Kirsten -- (*)(*)(*)(*)(*)(*)(*)(*)(*)(*)(*)(*)(*)(*)(*)(*)(*)(*)(*)(*)(*)(*)(*)(*)(*)(*) "For a 6-foot-3 guy with no hair and a whiny voice, I've done all right." -Billy Corgan kbrodbec@remcen.ehhs.cmich.edu Kirsten Brodbeck AKA Crow AKA Brodie ------------------------------ From: TheyMBG@aol.com Date: Mon, 6 Oct 1997 16:50:57 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <971006164827_2021515255@emout04.mail.aol.com> Subject: TMBG: : tootsie roll pops --------------------- Forwarded message: Subj: tootsie roll pops Date: 97-10-06 16:48:20 EDT From: TheyMBG To: Happyfroot In a message dated 10/6/97 6:43:08 PM, Mr. Froot wrote: <<>>pondering the eternal question of how many licks it takes to get to the tootsie-roll >>center of a tootsie pop. It's 521. Do not question this approximation. (It is only an appoximation because the center of a Tootsie-roll pop isn't always in the center, as one test, the answer was none seeing that the Tootsie thing inside was exposed.) >> Actually, someone in my foundations class (Brian from Alabama.. leave it to an art major!) actually did this. He said it was over 3000 and at the end his tongue was all swollen and owie. I was amazed. Heather ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 6 Oct 1997 15:13:20 -0600 (MDT) From: J Kuemmerle Subject: Re: TMBG: interps Message-ID: On Mon, 6 Oct 1997, Kirsten Brodbeck pontificated: > Maybe.. I never thought of "Where Your Eyes Don't Go" as being > that specific. I *do* think it's one of the most paranoia-inducing songs > I've ever heard. I mean, for all you know, there *could* be a filthy > scarecrow following you around, and you just can't see it.. ;) i see your point! kinda reminds me of solipsism -- the idea that you can't ever actually *prove* that there isn't a filthy scarecrow waving his long stick arms and doing a parody of each unconcious thing you do waiting where your eyes don't go, because anything you'd do to prove it would depend upon a perception, and perception is notably prone to be mistaken. (the acid-takers in that other thread only perceived that the walls were melting, when they probably weren't, really.) for all i know, i could just be a brain in a vat being fed external stimuli to make me *think* that i was living this life... hence, solipsists (who are pretty few and far between -- living with that big a distrust of your perceptions is no easy business) are forced into a pretty complete agnosticism. that is, they can't prove *anything*, so they don't believe anything. a lot of philosophers were frustrated by the fact that the idea couldn't be either proven or disproven, and basically hoped everybody would ignore it and go away. but every kid (i guess, or maybe i was just weird) has fantasies about the world stopping in one direction when you turn your head the other way, so i don't think the idea's going anywhere soon. (if you've ever read _understanding_comics_ by scott mccloud, you know what i'm talking about! if you haven't, you should. now. i mean it.) -jim kuemmerle, who thinks maybe the list stops running when he's logged off of his e-mail account... j.kuemmerle@m.cc.utah.edu http://www.geocities.com/soho/gallery/4668/ ------------------------------ From: Oilcan1045@aol.com Date: Mon, 6 Oct 1997 18:37:53 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <971006183223_124697622@emout12.mail.aol.com> Subject: Re: Re: TMBG: Kids In a message dated 10/4/97 1:02:32 PM, you wrote: >>> And now, to start a thread: Since Freud says that childhood experiences influence what you become, what childhood instances would Flans and Linnell have to experience to become the great band TMBG?<<< >>Why do I see a middle school scene where Flans is getting a wedgie and Linnell is getting whacked on the head with a sax case? ....maybe I'm just having flashbacks.... Amanda>> While that sounds painful, I always like to imagine J & J at a carnival. They get lost, and wind up at the freak show, where "Animan" takes care of them until They're parents show up. It would explain a lot. ------------------------------ Message-ID: <34396FE9.7346@geocities.com> Date: Mon, 06 Oct 1997 16:10:33 -0700 From: Vladimir Drakul Subject: Re: TMBG: interps Eric Webber (EIN tech) wrote: > > On Mon, 6 Oct 1997, Tara Lynne Weber wrote: > > > Does this mean we're all a bunch of neurotic, twisted individuals? :) > > > > I think that sums it up pretty well. ...you didn't know that already...?! -- Vladimir Drakul -- http://www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/Heights/7343/ ******************************************************************* "...so the room must listen to me filibuster vigilantly..." -They Might Be Giants "How do YOU know about my beard growing escapade?!" -Guybrush Threepwood "An eye for an eye only makes the world blind." -Mahatma Ghandi ------------------------------ Message-ID: <3439705C.7B85@geocities.com> Date: Mon, 06 Oct 1997 16:12:28 -0700 From: Vladimir Drakul Subject: Re: TMBG: Kids Oilcan1045@aol.com wrote: > > In a message dated 10/4/97 1:02:32 PM, you wrote: > > >>> And now, to start a thread: Since Freud says that childhood > experiences > influence what you become, what childhood instances would Flans and > Linnell have to experience to become the great band TMBG?<<< > > >>Why do I see a middle school scene where Flans is getting a wedgie and > Linnell is getting whacked on the head with a sax case? > ....maybe I'm just having flashbacks.... > Amanda>> > > While that sounds painful, I always like to imagine J & J at a carnival. > They get lost, and wind up at the freak show, where "Animan" takes care of > them until They're parents show up. It would explain a lot. No, no... it's where Linnell falls in love with Ana Ng. Then he's so depressed afterward, the Johns write a song about it... they decide it kicks SO much ass that they start a band. -- Vladimir "Okay, maybe not" Drakul -- http://www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/Heights/7343/ ******************************************************************* "...so the room must listen to me filibuster vigilantly..." -They Might Be Giants "How do YOU know about my beard growing escapade?!" -Guybrush Threepwood "An eye for an eye only makes the world blind." -Mahatma Ghandi ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 6 Oct 1997 17:26:00 -0600 (MDT) From: J Kuemmerle Subject: Re: TMBG: Kids Message-ID: On Mon, 6 Oct 1997, Vladimir Drakul wrote: >>>> And now, to start a thread: Since Freud says that childhood >>>> experiences influence what you become, what childhood instances would >>>> Flans and Linnell have to experience to become the great band TMBG? >>> Why do I see a middle school scene where Flans is getting a wedgie and >>> Linnell is getting whacked on the head with a sax case? >>> ....maybe I'm just having flashbacks.... >> While that sounds painful, I always like to imagine J & J at a carnival. >> They get lost, and wind up at the freak show, where "Animan" takes >> care of them until They're parents show up. It would explain a lot. > No, no... it's where Linnell falls in love with Ana Ng. Then he's so > depressed afterward, the Johns write a song about it... they decide it > kicks SO much ass that they start a band. Flans gets a C in 7th grade life science because he insists on rearranging the organs of his dissection frog into odd-looking sculptures of footwear. Linnell eats too many mashed potatoes one night and has astronomy nightmares. in sensurround. -jim kuemmerle, who can feel the giant telescope swiveling all the way over here in salt lake city!!! j.kuemmerle@m.cc.utah.edu http://www.geocities.com/soho/gallery/4668/ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 6 Oct 1997 19:41:46 -0600 (MDT) From: J Kuemmerle Subject: TMBG: The Sullen Moon and Other Things Message-ID: hey now everybody now hey now everybody hey now everybody now... i was just thinking about the nightgown of the sullen moon, and the spiffy death interp that's been proposed here of late (pun intended) by tarnished silence and confirmed by mike leffel, and i recalled that it had been mentioned by jim lowery a while back (august, to be specific,) that artemis, the greek goddess of the moon and other things, had three personalities, one of which was the new moon, hecate, at which point she was mean and grouchy and, as jim lowery would put it, 'e-vile'. not only that, but she inhabited the underworld. (i've double-checked my info with the list archives) so, in an attempt to link these two ideas, (see where i'm going here?) i propose that the nightgown of the sullen moon is in fact about death, at which point you would, if you were an ancient greek dead guy, travel down to the underworld and maybe even meet hecate, the sullen moon. at this point you would be in the realm of darkness, which, (since hecate is the goddess of the new moon,) is what the sullen moon cloaks itself in!! if that confused anybody, let me know, and i'll try to post it again in a more coherent manner. -jim kuemmerle, who's so excited about submitting a new interp that he's going to tie his shoelaces together with care to celebrate!!! j.kuemmerle@m.cc.utah.edu http://www.geocities.com/soho/gallery/4668/ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 6 Oct 1997 21:44:32 -0400 From: "Todd Dayton" Message-ID: <61c47q$rs8@ussodyssey.ufp.org> Organization: United Federation of Planets Subject: Re: TMBG: Re: DC show My wife and I will be going, with my younger brother in tow. I wear glasses and have a ponytail. Matt, i would assume you were the Matt standing next to us at the Mono Puff show not too long ago? Matthew James wrote in message <9710061523.AA02766@envy.loyola.edu>... >> Is there a group of people from the list getting together for the DC >> show? My Husband is going to be out of town and I don't want to go >> alone. >> >> Nancy >Phil Moss and I will be at the show. We both wear glasses and Phil has >a knack for speaking with a Liverpool accent. I don't know if anyone >else is going with us as of yet. Who all is going? >Bye. >Matt > >-- >Matt James mjames@greed.loyola.edu >Loyola College in Baltimore, MD >Bruce Campbell Gazette: www.bcgazette.com ------------------------------ From: Cdanve10@scu.edu.au Date: Tue, 7 Oct 1997 11:49:43 +1000 Message-Id: <1.5.4.16.19971007115619.2e1fa502@students.scu.edu.au> Subject: TMBG: I know what you mean .... >although many artists have dabbled in drugs and written songs about it, i >never saw tmbg as a band influenced by drugs. Yeah !!! I know what you mean .... I really did think it could be druggy at first but I really don't find much TMBG music that good to listen to out of it. ..... You don't get to apreciate the good songs , more in it for attitude and things like that ...... oh !!! and that person who said that thing about "master electricians" or what not , I know what you mean as well .... Where not masters but I think the ones that don't lose it are the ones who can accept their limitations and don't use drugs to forget reality ...... I hate that shit .... So-man ------------------------------ Message-Id: Date: Mon, 6 Oct 97 22:30 EDT From: kbrodbec@remcen.ehhs.cmich.edu (Kirsten Brodbeck) Subject: Re: TMBG: interps but every kid (i guess, or maybe i was just weird) has fantasies >about the world stopping in one direction when you turn your head the >other way, so i don't think the idea's going anywhere soon. Or like that feeling when you look in the mirror that if you could somehow see through the doorway in the mirror, then you'd see something different than if you just turned around and looked.. Kirsten (fascinated by this whole thing, and somewhat infuriated ) -- (*)(*)(*)(*)(*)(*)(*)(*)(*)(*)(*)(*)(*)(*)(*)(*)(*)(*)(*)(*)(*)(*)(*)(*)(*)(*) "For a 6-foot-3 guy with no hair and a whiny voice, I've done all right." -Billy Corgan kbrodbec@remcen.ehhs.cmich.edu Kirsten Brodbeck AKA Crow AKA Brodie ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 6 Oct 1997 23:27:54 -0500 (EST) From: Ryan Staib Subject: Re: TMBG: interps Message-ID: On Mon, 6 Oct 1997, Kirsten Brodbeck wrote: * but every kid (i guess, or maybe i was just weird) has fantasies * >about the world stopping in one direction when you turn your head the * >other way, so i don't think the idea's going anywhere soon. * * Or like that feeling when you look in the mirror that if you could * somehow see through the doorway in the mirror, then you'd see something * different than if you just turned around and looked.. Hah! I'm listening to XTC's "Chalkhills and Children," and I never would have realized this otherwise. "Even I never know where I go, when my eyes are closed." Great song for this discussion. Or in general, but hey. :) RS ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 7 Oct 1997 00:44:33 -0500 (CDT) From: **Tarnished Silence** Subject: TMBG: Fringes on the Nightgown Message-Id: Heya, all! Thanks for liking my interp of Nightgown. I have a question, tho, that not even I have figured out (no, no ego trips here, honest). What do they mean "where the windows lean into the room"? Leaning windows? Any ideas? Tarnished Silence 210 /--------------------------------------\ | knowing the dark | | mind tramples the sun | | holding the power | | it comes without sound | | | | T A R N I S H E D S I L E N C E | | tsilence@usa.net | \--------------------------------------/ ------------------------------ End of tmbg-list Digest #3-279 ******************************