Errors-To: owner-tmbg-digest@tmbg.org Reply-To: tmbg-digest@tmbg.org Sender: owner-tmbg-digest@tmbg.org Precedence: bulk From: owner-tmbg-digest@tmbg.org To: tmbg-digest@tmbg.org Subject: tmbg-list Digest #16-32 tmbg-list Digest, Volume 16, Number 32 Friday, 9 April 1999 Today's Topics: Re: TMBG: Maybe another Futurama TMBG ref? TMBG: Why Can't We Be Friends? Re: TMBG: Why Can't We Be Friends? Re: TMBG: Maybe another Futurama TMBG ref? Re: TMBG: Maybe another Futurama TMBG ref? Re: TMBG: Maybe another Futurama TMBG ref? Re: TMBG: Maybe another Futurama TMBG ref? RE: TMBG: Maybe another Futurama TMBG ref? Re: TMBG: Maybe another Futurama TMBG ref? Re: TMBG: Maybe another Futurama TMBG ref? Re: TMBG: Maybe another Futurama TMBG ref? Re: TMBG: Maybe another Futurama TMBG ref? Re: TMBG: Maybe another Futurama TMBG ref? RE: TMBG: Maybe another Futurama TMBG ref? TMBG: TMBG in Valpo!!!!!!! Re: TMBG: TMBG in Valpo!!!!!!! Re: TMBG: Maybe another Futurama TMBG ref? Re: nonTMBG: Maybe another Futurama TMBG ref? Re: TMBG: Maybe another Futurama TMBG ref? Re: TMBG: Why Can't We Be Friends? Re: TMBG: Maybe another Futurama TMBG ref? Re: TMBG: Maybe another Futurama TMBG ref? TMBG: Vagueness Judge Re: TMBG: Vagueness Judge Re: TMBG: Maybe another Futurama TMBG ref? Re: TMBG: Maybe another Futurama TMBG ref? TMBG: Vote on TRL Re: TMBG: Maybe another Futurama TMBG ref? Re: TMBG: Maybe another Futurama TMBG ref? Re: TMBG: Maybe another Futurama TMBG ref? Re: TMBG: Maybe another Futurama TMBG ref? Re: TMBG: Maybe another Futurama TMBG ref? Re: TMBG: Maybe another Futurama TMBG ref? Re: TMBG: Maybe another Futurama TMBG ref? Re: TMBG: Maybe another Futurama TMBG ref? Re: TMBG: Maybe another Futurama TMBG ref? Re: TMBG: Maybe another Futurama TMBG ref? TMBG: is it a TMBG reference or is it memorex? Administrivia: If you wish to unsubscribe from this mailing send mail to tmbg-digest-request@tmbg.org for instructions on how to be automatically removed. --------------------------------------------------------------------- The views expressed herein are those of the individual authors. --------------------------------------------------------------------- tmbg-list is digested with Digest 3.5b (John Relph ). ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: linnel@snet.net Message-Id: <199904060845.EAA17074@pop.snet.net> Date: Tue, 6 Apr 1999 04:43:51 -0400 Subject: Re: TMBG: Maybe another Futurama TMBG ref? > > no, saying it definitely is shows ignorance (or lack of realization that > there are a lot of things that TMBG reference themselves out there, that > could very well be referenced by people). There's quite a difference > between saying "I saw a TMBG reference on this TV show!" and "I think > this might be a TMBG reference..." the difference may be quite big, but i for one don't notice the oh-so- big gap. maybe it's because the communists covered it over with some foliage. or maybe it's because it's not that big of a deal to mention a tmbg reference, no matter how big or small. > saying you think it's a reference implies uncertainty. certainty about > something one cannot be certain about shows ignorance (or apathy). i'm sorry, then.... i must be the most ignorant fool anyone has ever met... i'm certainly uncertain about a lot of things, but i wouldn't consider myself ignorant because i don't know the same thing that the astrophysicist over there knows. heck, i'm uncertain of how to SPELL astrophysicist. but most of all, i'm uncertain of the propriety of the word ignorant being used in this situation. i much prefer the word uncertain. > example: I am certain that Weird Al's song Everything You Know is Wrong > is based on the styles of TMBG (or his interpretation of them). He has > said so. wonderful. but not everyone knows that. > I think that when, after Moxy Fruvous performed Spiderman in Clevland > last fall, Jian said "Spidey! We love you Spidey!" it was probably a > TMBG reference. But I don't know for sure, and it would be stupid of me > to say it definitely was. but, it would not be stupid to inquire to a list of at least 20 other active posters who would have the knowledge to share. > But unless it's really obvious, like if they said "Make a little > birdhouse in your soul," you can't say that it is (or isn't) a reference. ahhh... but where do you cross that line? when is it considered obvious? to some people, these references are obvious to them, otherwise they wouldn't have picked up on it. sometimes, they even have a little backround information to support their reference theory. and instead of searching through the FAQ, i have a whole list of answers to my frquently asked questions. not only that, but if it IS a tmbg reference, i have successfully shared the tmbg wealth, all in one post. perhaps we shouldn't be so critical. jennnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnn nnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnn "with two 'n's?" "no no... just one" ------------------------------ From: GhostKrabb@webtv.net (Dexter Flansburgh) Date: Tue, 6 Apr 1999 01:53:34 -0700 (PDT) Subject: TMBG: Why Can't We Be Friends? Message-ID: <10515-3709CB8E-3353@mailtod-241.iap.bryant.webtv.net> Kirsten wrote: But see, the thing is, if you'd read the FAQ, there's so much there.. Aw, nevermind. Now I'm writing: Okay, so is it like manditory now to read the FAQ before joining this list? 'Cause I haven't. I've only read what might have interested me at the time I first looked at it, and then brought up all my other questions here. If everybody just relied on the FAQ for this, we wouldn't have a list. If my questions as a younger, more oblivious fan of TMBG are annoying you guys (even though I thought I could bring up stuff like this with fellow TMBG fans) just tell me to fuck off and read the FAQ, and I'll gladly leave. You know, this is one of the most bitter lists I'm on. Can't we all just get along? I believe someone stated earlier in this discussion that we're all here becuase of our love for TMBG, so let's try to feel that love, OK? me, Dexburger copecopecopecopecopecopecopecopecope Go here: http://www.mtv.com/mtv/tubescan/totalrequest2/playmy/playmy.tin?sPollName=reqmain or call 1-800-Dial-MTV to request videos by They Might Be Giants on MTV's "Total Request Live" 'cause They deserve it! ------------------------------ From: LimeZinger@aol.com Message-ID: <48a26b6.243b267c@aol.com> Date: Tue, 6 Apr 1999 04:57:32 EDT Subject: Re: TMBG: Why Can't We Be Friends? In a message dated 4/6/99 3:54:06 AM, GhostKrabb@webtv.net writes: > Okay, so is it like manditory now to read the FAQ before > >joining this list? no, but it's just common sense to do so. but not even that -- when *i* read it, it was because i wanted to know everything i could possibly know about TMBG and then some. i still imagine what the rabid child video looks like... :) >If everybody just relied on the FAQ for this, > >we wouldn't have a list. untrue. >If my questions as a younger, more oblivious > >fan of TMBG are annoying you guys (even though I thought I could bring > >up stuff like this with fellow TMBG fans) just tell me to fuck off and > >read the FAQ, and I'll gladly leave. not everything is in the FAQ. you could read it, that might help a couple things. i have no idea what's in your head. but life is not summarized by FAQ files. sarah np. tragically hip - fully completely ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 6 May 1999 06:58:13 -0400 Subject: Re: TMBG: Maybe another Futurama TMBG ref? Message-ID: <19990506.065818.2990.1.Phone_Book@juno.com> From: i think my name is jay or not Remember, because you can't see it means it doesn't exist! On Mon, 5 Apr 1999 23:25:35 -0400 (EDT) Lawrence P Solomon writes: >And John & John would probably take offense at your comment of >"inherently offbeat band." You obviously haven't heard them describe >themselves. And they wouldn't be offended at the way you're prone to describe them? You seem downright angry sometimes at the Johns, for questionable reasons: the mp3 album, for example, or not putting on as exciting a live show as one of your other bands. How you get around is beyond me, sir, 'cause it seems you've got a five feet log sticking out of your eye concerning this matter. I *have* heard them describe themselves, but to say that they aren't offbeat would be a lie. I have also heard them described by respected members of this list as "true alternative." Is that on beat? peace, love, and good happiness stuff, jay. ___________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 6 May 1999 07:13:44 -0400 Subject: Re: TMBG: Maybe another Futurama TMBG ref? Message-ID: <19990506.071347.2990.4.Phone_Book@juno.com> From: i think my name is jay or not On Tue, 6 Apr 1999 01:47:59 -0400 (EDT) Lawrence P Solomon writes: >you're reading what I'm writing, but you're not understanding it. All >I'm saying is that you can't go around saying something is certain when >you're not totally sure it is. Some of them may be TMBG references. >But unless it's really obvious, like if they said "Make a little >birdhouse in your soul," you can't say that it is (or isn't) a >reference. You have established two things: each supposed reference posted to the list is either certain or not, and, if certain and untrue, the poster is ignorant of the true facts. Goodie! The members of the list give a collective thank you; we are now enlightened. I'm still curious, however, why you've appointed yourself the official ignorance buster list policeman? Those listees who are wrong aren't wrong to be evil and hateful toward the more knowledgable members. They mean no ill. Why treat them as the most pathetic strain of human being alive in the contemporary world? Lighten up, sir. I'd rather not have the less experienced members of the list frightened to share their knowledge for fear of being chided, even if that knowledge might be wrong. What if it isn't? the end. peace, love, and good happiness stuff, jay. ___________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] ------------------------------ Message-ID: Date: Tue, 6 Apr 1999 09:16:18 -0400 (EDT) From: Lawrence P Solomon Subject: Re: TMBG: Maybe another Futurama TMBG ref? Excerpts from internet.music.tmbg: 6-Apr-99 Re: TMBG: Maybe another Fut.. by Bob Scott@tmbg.org > There are several factors here resulting in people being certain of > TMBG references. They fervently adore TMBG and want to see them everywhere > they look. Many members of the list are younger and obviously do not have > the rights of certainty which you solemnly hold. There is no certainty in > life. I think that youu still don't get it. try paying attention to what I'm writing. I am *NOT* *CERTAIN*. I'm saying that they COULD be references, but they also COULD NOT, and USUALLY AREN'T. > most of the listies understand this. But if you truly think it's harmful > for someone to say "I was watching 'Grandma Ned's Cooking Show' and Grandma > Ned said 'Let's become a robot'" (It was a strange episode, apparently), > and then draw the conclusion: "Grandma Ned or one of the writers of her > show is a fan of TMBG." that's a little more blatant a reference, though. although, I still think they should never post these things as facts unless they know. That is *probably* a TMBG reference, but it could just be a coincidence. The point is we don't know for sure. It's a matter of how you phrase it. If you say "It's a TMBG reference!" then you're claiming to know for sure. > Ignorance exists in the world. But sometimes ignorance is power. Think > about it: Why would they bother posting it to the list if they knew for a > fact that it was a reference? Obviously, someone else would have already for the same reason that people keep posting about the hidden track on Factory Showroom. Lawrence Solomon http://www.contrib.andrew.cmu.edu/~lps/ lps@andrew.cmu.edu "Just because you're floating doesn't mean * This space inadvertently you haven't drowned." -They Might Be Giants * left with stuff in it. ------------------------------ Message-ID: Date: Tue, 6 Apr 1999 09:19:55 -0400 (EDT) From: Lawrence P Solomon Subject: Re: TMBG: Maybe another Futurama TMBG ref? Excerpts from internet.music.tmbg: 6-Apr-99 Re: TMBG: Maybe another Fut.. by linnel@snet.net > i'm sorry, then.... i must be the most ignorant fool anyone has ever > met... i'm certainly uncertain about a lot of things, but i wouldn't > consider myself ignorant because i don't know the same thing that > the astrophysicist over there knows. heck, i'm uncertain of how to > SPELL astrophysicist. but most of all, i'm uncertain of the propriety > of the word ignorant being used in this situation. i much prefer the > word uncertain. are you not reading my post? are you just assuming I'm attacking you? apparently. There is nothing wrong with being uncertain, as long as one makes the admission to being so. Let me state it clearly and maybe, just maybe, you all will pick up on it... **************************************************************************** It's bad when you are not certain about something AND state it as if you are certain about it. It's ignorant, hypocritical, and shows that you probably don't even care if you're wrong. THAT is what I have a problem with. **************************************************************************** It's the difference between stating something as fact and stating it as belief. Lawrence Solomon http://www.contrib.andrew.cmu.edu/~lps/ lps@andrew.cmu.edu "Just because you're floating doesn't mean * This space inadvertently you haven't drowned." -They Might Be Giants * left with stuff in it. ------------------------------ Message-Id: <199904061332.JAA55160@ussenterprise.ufp.org> From: "Maki, Michael G." Subject: RE: TMBG: Maybe another Futurama TMBG ref? Date: Tue, 6 Apr 1999 08:33:41 -0500 > And John & John would probably take offense at your comment of > "inherently offbeat band." You obviously haven't heard them describe > themselves. > Quite frankly, it doesn't really matter how The Johns describe themselves. Their fans are much better indicators of what "kind" of band they are. I personally am of the camp that says that an artist's ownership (figurative, not literal, fools) of a piece of art ends with its completion and display. Who's to say that Fingertips isn't about a bad acid trip? Only you, and only quietly to yourself, at that. It always irritates me when someone proposes to dictate what a piece of art "means." The whole purpose of art is to get you to feel things... Just because when you see a painting, you don't see what an art guide says the painting "means" doesn't make your observation any less valid or real. mm ------------------------------ Message-ID: Date: Tue, 6 Apr 1999 09:37:53 -0400 (EDT) From: Lawrence P Solomon Subject: Re: TMBG: Maybe another Futurama TMBG ref? Excerpts from internet.music.tmbg: 6-May-99 Re: TMBG: Maybe another Fut.. by i my n. is j. or not@jun > And they wouldn't be offended at the way you're prone to describe them? > You seem downright angry sometimes at the Johns, for questionable > reasons: the mp3 album, for example, or not putting on as exciting a live > show as one of your other bands. How you get around is beyond me, sir, > 'cause it seems you've got a five feet log sticking out of your eye > concerning this matter. I *have* heard them describe themselves, but to > say that they aren't offbeat would be a lie. I'm somewhat bothered by the direction their career seems to be going, but again, I don't know for sure what will be on the next album... I do know that I will probably listen to it a few times before buying it, because I was so disappointed with STD, though. I'm describing my opinion, not facts. > I have also heard them described by respected members of this list as > "true alternative." Is that on beat? What is "true alternative" anyway? It changes so often... I think the best way to describe them would probably be something to the effect of "musicians intent on making good music, varying their style considerably within each album, and not really worrying about what the mainstream is like." That's probably pretty accurate, based on what I've seen in interviews and stuff. They don't want to be considered off-beat. They just want to be considered a band that makes their own music. Lawrence Solomon http://www.contrib.andrew.cmu.edu/~lps/ lps@andrew.cmu.edu "Just because you're floating doesn't mean * This space inadvertently you haven't drowned." -They Might Be Giants * left with stuff in it. ------------------------------ From: Batbrain99@aol.com Message-ID: <2051590b.243b66d9@aol.com> Date: Tue, 6 Apr 1999 09:32:09 EDT Subject: Re: TMBG: Maybe another Futurama TMBG ref? In a message dated 99-04-05 21:07:10 EDT, you write: << Well, some people don't know every single thing there is to know about TMBG, often this is a reason they are on the list--to learn more. >> Yeah, those people really irritate me who don't know as much as the veterans like us. I mean... who could be so ignorant about TMBG, creators of such wonderful songs as "Why Does the Sun Shine?" and "Istanbul not Costantinople" ? ------------------------------ From: Batbrain99@aol.com Message-ID: Date: Tue, 6 Apr 1999 09:37:38 EDT Subject: Re: TMBG: Maybe another Futurama TMBG ref? In a message dated 99-04-06 09:22:14 EDT, you write: << are you not reading my post? are you just assuming I'm attacking you? apparently. There is nothing wrong with being uncertain, as long as one makes the admission to being so. Let me state it clearly and maybe, just maybe, you all will pick up on it... >> i would just like to remind everyone that I created this thread, and I'm damn proud of it. Longest one I've done yet! ~Batbrain, creator of such threads as "fav fingertips song ------------------------------ Message-ID: <0r2V5Si00Ui502fVE0@andrew.cmu.edu> Date: Tue, 6 Apr 1999 09:51:26 -0400 (EDT) From: Lawrence P Solomon Subject: Re: TMBG: Maybe another Futurama TMBG ref? Excerpts from internet.music.tmbg: 6-May-99 Re: TMBG: Maybe another Fut.. by i my n. is j. or not@jun > Lighten up, sir. I'd rather not have the less experienced members of the > list frightened to share their knowledge for fear of being chided, even > if that knowledge might be wrong. What if it isn't? I'm not annoyed at people for not knowing. There is no crime in not knowing something. I'm bothered, though, when people who don't know something speak as if they do. GOT IT?!?!? UNDERSTAND?! probably not, but it's worth a try. And don't tell *ME* to lighten up, since you're the one who addresses everyone so formally. I have a name. Are you so full of contempt that you have to speak to me in this condescending manner? Lawrence Solomon http://www.contrib.andrew.cmu.edu/~lps/ lps@andrew.cmu.edu "Just because you're floating doesn't mean * This space inadvertently you haven't drowned." -They Might Be Giants * left with stuff in it. ------------------------------ Message-ID: <8r2V_Xu00Ui502fWY0@andrew.cmu.edu> Date: Tue, 6 Apr 1999 09:56:51 -0400 (EDT) From: Lawrence P Solomon Subject: Re: TMBG: Maybe another Futurama TMBG ref? Excerpts from internet.music.tmbg: 6-Apr-99 RE: TMBG: Maybe another Fut.. by "Maki, Michael G."@ci.mi > Quite frankly, it doesn't really matter how The Johns describe themselves. > Their fans are much better indicators of what "kind" of band they are. sort of. I still think we should have the respect to at least not describe them in a way they don't like. The best analogy I can think of is nicknames... if you told someone you didn't really like your nickname, and to please call you by your full first name, wouldn't it be disrespectful, given that, to use the nickname anyway? > I personally am of the camp that says that an artist's ownership > (figurative, not literal, fools) of a piece of art ends with its completion > and display. Who's to say that Fingertips isn't about a bad acid trip? > Only you, and only quietly to yourself, at that. Well, John and John, for one, would probably say it isn't about a bad acid trip... but apparently you don't value their opinion of their own music. An artist's intent is always there, even after the work is completed. And I think they should have the final word as to an interpretation. If they say "We aren't sure what it's all about, make something up," then we'll all go and find something to link it to. But they've specifically commented on a few songs (mostly Factory Showroom) as to the meanings they've given them. And you're trying to tell me that the people who wrote the songs are *wrong* about what they mean? > It always irritates me when someone proposes to dictate what a piece of art > "means." The whole purpose of art is to get you to feel things... Just > because when you see a painting, you don't see what an art guide says the > painting "means" doesn't make your observation any less valid or real. When a viewer says it, yes. When the artist says it, there can be little argument. Only the artist knows what was going through his head when he created the work. But if the artist says nothing of a piece, we are free to interpret it as we see fit. Lawrence Solomon http://www.contrib.andrew.cmu.edu/~lps/ lps@andrew.cmu.edu "Just because you're floating doesn't mean * This space inadvertently you haven't drowned." -They Might Be Giants * left with stuff in it. ------------------------------ Message-Id: <199904061405.KAA56464@ussenterprise.ufp.org> From: "Maki, Michael G." Subject: RE: TMBG: Maybe another Futurama TMBG ref? Date: Tue, 6 Apr 1999 09:05:59 -0500 > > Their fans are much better indicators of what "kind" of band they > are. > > sort of. I still think we should have the respect to at least not > describe them in a way they don't like. The best analogy I can think > of > is nicknames... if you told someone you didn't really like your > nickname, and to please call you by your full first name, wouldn't it > be > disrespectful, given that, to use the nickname anyway? > The Johns have said "Please don't call us offbeat"? I find it hard to believe that a band that goes about with an accordion and sings a cover of "Istanbul (Not Constantinople)" isn't aware that that is how they're going to be perceived. > > > I personally am of the camp that says that an artist's ownership > > (figurative, not literal, fools) of a piece of art ends with its > completion > > and display. Who's to say that Fingertips isn't about a bad acid > trip? > > Only you, and only quietly to yourself, at that. > > And you're trying to tell me > that the people who wrote the songs are *wrong* about what they mean? > No, but I, as an observer and appreciator of the songs ultimately decide for myself what it means. I'm all for knowing what was going through the Johns' heads whilst it was being written, but, really, once it's in my CD player, the interpretation is out of their hands. > > > It always irritates me when someone proposes to dictate what a piece > of art > > "means." The whole purpose of art is to get you to feel things... > Just > > because when you see a painting, you don't see what an art guide > says the > > painting "means" doesn't make your observation any less valid or > real. > > When a viewer says it, yes. When the artist says it, there can be > little argument. Only the artist knows what was going through his > head > when he created the work. But if the artist says nothing of a piece, > we > are free to interpret it as we see fit. > That is just my point. If I draw a stick man bludgeoning a baby seal, I can say it's an indictment of a patriarchal society. That doesn't mean that every person to see that picture isn't just going to say "that poor baby seal" and not "damn the man", nor should it. --- Michael G. Maki - Personnel Office City of Minneapolis Park and Recreation Board Direct Dial: 612-661-4846 Fax: 612-661-4777 E-mail: michael.g.maki@ci.minneapolis.mn.us ------------------------------ Message-ID: <370A2D03.8A7AA591@mail.netnitco.net> Date: Tue, 06 Apr 1999 10:49:23 -0500 From: The Cowans Subject: TMBG: TMBG in Valpo!!!!!!! Okay, I don't know if anyone on her lives in or near Valparaiso, IN but .... They are coming here!!!! 5 minutes from my house!!!!!! Does anyone know anything about how to get tickets? Melissa ------------------------------ From: Jeremy Skrenes Subject: Re: TMBG: TMBG in Valpo!!!!!!! Message-ID: Date: Tue, 06 Apr 1999 10:52:30 -0500 i sent a message earlier about this, but repeating it won't hurt. tickets are $15 for open seating, $12 for mezzanine (less of a view). you can purchase them at the VU union info desk or at box seats tickets, at 462-3349. On Tue, 06 Apr 1999 10:49:23 -0500 The Cowans wrote: > Okay, I don't know if anyone on her lives in or near Valparaiso, IN but > .... They are coming here!!!! 5 minutes from my house!!!!!! Does anyone > know anything about how to get tickets? > > Melissa > * ----------------------------------------- Jeremy Skrenes Email: Jeremy.Skrenes@valpo.edu Valparaiso University ------------------------------ Message-ID: <19990406165455.91130.qmail@hotmail.com> From: "Todd Wetherbee" Subject: Re: TMBG: Maybe another Futurama TMBG ref? Date: Tue, 06 Apr 1999 09:54:54 PDT > >Excerpts from internet.music.tmbg: 5-Apr-99 Re: TMBG: Maybe another >Fut.. by e f rae@juno.com >> We're not all stupid, we know that they're most likely *not* TMBG >> references, but it's fun to look at things that way. I mean, if I were to >> say that I have a TMBG reference in my home, because I have a rabbit >> named Lennie, which sounds a little bit like "Linnell," I wouldn't >> actually mean it! It's all just kidding around. Lighten up; Life's too >> short to knock down other people's fun. > >speak for yourself. a lot of people *are* serious when they claim to >have seen or heard a reference. I don't care if people joke about it, >but it should at least be clear that it's a joke. To me, someone >stating that they think "Destination Moon" or "I saw the best minds of >my generation..." are TMBG references is not joking, because that's a >plausible misconception that many people make. > >Lawrence Solomon http://www.contrib.andrew.cmu.edu/~lps/ lps@andrew.cmu.edu >"Just because you're floating doesn't mean * This space inadvertently > you haven't drowned." -They Might Be Giants * left with stuff in it. > Yeah. Maybe we should include something else in the header: joke or non-joke. That would lend some clarity to the situation. I also think we all need to stick a corncob up our butt if we haven't done so already. Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Message-ID: <19990406171904.8424.qmail@hotmail.com> From: "Todd Wetherbee" Subject: Re: nonTMBG: Maybe another Futurama TMBG ref? Date: Tue, 06 Apr 1999 10:18:59 PDT >On Wed, 5 May 1999, i think my name is jay or not wrote: > >> Why should the joker be forced to state that he is joking? It should be >> clear by his context whether he's ignorant of beat poetry or a die-hard >> Ginsberg fan; > > But see, the problem occurs because it's often not obvious. Clearer definition, dammit. That's what we need. This is the TMBG list, not the vague list. I mean, jeez, man. I think we should set up an official vagueness judge on the list, elected by the list, for the list, who would bring swift and efficient justice to any listee who refused to make his or her intentions perfectly clear. This is not a time for apathy. We must rid ourselves of this pestilent lack of clarity, this plague of ambiguity, this pathological force that is infecting the list, wrapping it's filthy tendrils around our helpless souls, pulling our lifeless bodies into the vacuous pit of nonspecificity. WE MUST BE STRONG!!! (and precise in our use of language.) > > and despite his seriousness, there's little reason to >> become so obviously annoyed and spiteful. > > Yeah, but it's so damn *annoying* when people don't read the FAQ >or even know that "Howl" is a famous poem by Ginsberg, not TMBG. It makes >me grit my teeth when people don't know what they're talking about. I >usually keep my mouth shut, but still... You should be careful. Gritting your teeth causes excess pressure to your jaw. Eventually you could cause it to explode. Have I mentioned my idea about an official annoyance judge that would preside over the list, enforcing every listee's right to live annoyance-free? Farside Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Message-ID: <19990406175513.15806.qmail@hotmail.com> From: "Todd Wetherbee" Subject: Re: TMBG: Maybe another Futurama TMBG ref? Date: Tue, 06 Apr 1999 10:55:09 PDT >Excerpts from internet.music.tmbg: 5-May-99 Re: TMBG: Maybe another >Fut.. by i my n. is j. or not@jun >> Why should the joker be forced to state that he is joking? It should be >> clear by his context whether he's ignorant of beat poetry or a die-hard >> Ginsberg fan; and despite his seriousness, there's little reason to >> become so obviously annoyed and spiteful. Why bother letting it get to >> you? Is it a personal slight towards you to believe an inherently >> offbeat show might reference an inherently offbeat band? > >they don't need to state it, but when people *don't* include the context >to make it clear that they're joking, and since there are many common >misconceptions about TMBG references (or lack thereof) out there, it >gets a little extreme at times. Context. Good word. I'm thinking about making a list manifesto. Here's an excerpt: The true TMBG list member must always, when making a 'joke', include the context of the joke in order to make it clear to other members that they are joking. To fail to do so would be to implicitly nullify one's inherent 'list memberness'. At this point, the imposter list member would not only be causing damage to him or herself but also placing many true list members at risk, possibly even endangering them by causing them to grit their teeth. This individual should be summarily executed. I'm hoping to complete a first draft of the manifesto by Thursday. Most likely not this Thursday, but by some Thursday for sure. Probably. > >it's one thing to say "I wonder if this person is a fan, since they said >these things..." but quite another to go spouting off "This >show/movie/CD/song/whatever is full of TMBG references! They used the >word THE, and we know that TMBG have also used the word THE!" Okay, TMBG might have used the word 'the' a few times, but I'd hardly consider someone else saying 'the' to be a TMBG reference. I don't know who said that, but they're probably pretty slow-witted. However, while we're on the subject, I was watching Andy Griffith the other day and Sherriff Taylor said to Barney, "In all my years, Barn, somethingsomethinmumblewatermelon." And I thought to myself, well, TMBG uses the word 'in' quite frequently. They even start a sentence with the word 'in' sometimes, just like Andy. And I thought, well, gosh, ya know, I can see a situation here where Andy Griffith could have travelled to the future the steal the ideas of the geniuses of our time and could have very easily picked up a few TMBG albums and been very strongly influenced. Very strongly influenced indeed! I know, my idea my seem to be a little far-fetched, but it just might be crazy enough to be true. > >I'm not saying that the show *shouldn't* make these references, more >that they most likely *aren't*. > >And John & John would probably take offense at your comment of >"inherently offbeat band." You obviously haven't heard them describe >themselves. > >Lawrence Solomon http://www.contrib.andrew.cmu.edu/~lps/ lps@andrew.cmu.edu >"Just because you're floating doesn't mean * This space inadvertently > you haven't drowned." -They Might Be Giants * left with stuff in it. > Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Message-ID: <19990406180359.10220.qmail@hotmail.com> From: "Todd Wetherbee" Subject: Re: TMBG: Why Can't We Be Friends? Date: Tue, 06 Apr 1999 11:03:58 PDT >not everything is in the FAQ. you could read it, that might help a couple >things. i have no idea what's in your head. but life is not summarized by >FAQ files. Of course not. Life is summarized by the little blurb on the back of the book. > > > > >sarah >np. tragically hip - fully completely Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Message-ID: <19990406182120.27975.qmail@hotmail.com> From: "Todd Wetherbee" Subject: Re: TMBG: Maybe another Futurama TMBG ref? Date: Tue, 06 Apr 1999 11:21:19 PDT >>you're reading what I'm writing, but you're not understanding it. All >>I'm saying is that you can't go around saying something is certain when >>you're not totally sure it is. Some of them may be TMBG references. >>But unless it's really obvious, like if they said "Make a little >>birdhouse in your soul," you can't say that it is (or isn't) a >>reference. > >You have established two things: each supposed reference posted to the >list is either certain or not, and, if certain and untrue, the poster is >ignorant of the true facts. Goodie! The members of the list give a >collective thank you; we are now enlightened. I'm still curious, >however, why you've appointed yourself the official ignorance buster list >policeman? What a great idea! LPS could be official list policeman, carrying out the sentence of the list magistrate with great expediency. List crime would all but disappear with LPS manning the iron fist of the law. Yes! This rocks! Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Message-ID: <19990406182604.15412.qmail@hotmail.com> From: "Todd Wetherbee" Subject: Re: TMBG: Maybe another Futurama TMBG ref? Date: Tue, 06 Apr 1999 11:26:04 PDT >**************************************************************************** >It's bad when you are not certain about something AND state it as if you >are certain about it. It's ignorant, hypocritical, and shows that you >probably don't even care if you're wrong. THAT is what I have a problem >with. >**************************************************************************** I'm adding this to the manifesto immediately. I was moved to tears. Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Message-ID: <001e01be805b$c6ada2c0$5a228a81@rcn.nmt.edu> From: "Refund" Subject: TMBG: Vagueness Judge Date: Tue, 6 Apr 1999 12:32:07 -0600 I hereby announce my candidacy for the position of Vagueness Judge for the TMBG List. I have served, faithfully, as the TMBG Ambassador to the State of New Mexico for nearly a year now, and I believe I could carry out the responsibilities of the Vagueness Judge to the expectations of every man, woman, and child on this list. Thank you, in advance, for your time. Signed, Nick "vote for me!" Wolf, TMBG Ambassador to the State of New Mexico My Shoutcast channel is at 129.138.34.90:7050. No guarantee it'll be up all the time, but at least it's a start, no? Oh yeah. Visit www.geocities.com/SunsetStrip/Amphitheatre/5550 The first Julie Plug tribute page in history!!! [Attachment omitted, unknown MIME type or encoding (text/html)] ------------------------------ Message-ID: <19990406183849.11056.qmail@hotmail.com> From: "Todd Wetherbee" Subject: Re: TMBG: Vagueness Judge Date: Tue, 06 Apr 1999 11:38:48 PDT >I hereby announce my candidacy for the position of Vagueness Judge for the TMBG List. I have served, faithfully, as the TMBG Ambassador to the State of New Mexico for nearly a year now, and I believe I could carry out the responsibilities of the Vagueness Judge to the expectations of every man, woman, and child on this list. Thank you, in advance, for your time. What expectations are those? Aren't you being a bit imprecise when establishing the parameters of your terminology? I might even go so far as to call your message (gasp) vague. (DUN-DUN-DUN!!) (narrows his eyes) Hanging is too good for you, son. >Signed, > Nick "vote for me!" Wolf, TMBG Ambassador to the State of New Mexico > >My Shoutcast channel is at 129.138.34.90:7050. No guarantee it'll be up all the time, but at least it's a start, no? >Oh yeah. Visit www.geocities.com/SunsetStrip/Amphitheatre/5550 >The first Julie Plug tribute page in history!!! > Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Message-ID: Date: Tue, 6 Apr 1999 15:24:28 -0400 (EDT) From: Lawrence P Solomon Subject: Re: TMBG: Maybe another Futurama TMBG ref? Excerpts from internet.music.tmbg: 6-Apr-99 RE: TMBG: Maybe another Fut.. by "Maki, Michael G."@ci.mi > The Johns have said "Please don't call us offbeat"? I find it hard to > believe that a band that goes about with an accordion and sings a cover > of "Istanbul (Not Constantinople)" isn't aware that that is how they're > going to be perceived. They've waffled a bit on it. They know they're not mainstream; they know their fan base contains many members of the "odd" crowd. But they have the attitude (and I agree) that being off-beat/quirky really has an intent to it. If they're intending one thing and coming off as another, that's not entirely their problem. > No, but I, as an observer and appreciator of the songs ultimately decide > for myself what it means. I'm all for knowing what was going through > the Johns' heads whilst it was being written, but, really, once it's in > my CD player, the interpretation is out of their hands. it is out of their hands, but really, if they say it's about one thing, that's likely to sit there in your mind as you listen to it, too. > That is just my point. If I draw a stick man bludgeoning a baby seal, I > can say it's an indictment of a patriarchal society. That doesn't mean > that every person to see that picture isn't just going to say "that poor > baby seal" and not "damn the man", nor should it. They're going to still say "that poor baby seal" even if they know it's symbolic. But if they know what you were thinking, they're not going to think the drawing is about the bludgeoning of baby seals - either promoting or condemning it. Lawrence Solomon http://www.contrib.andrew.cmu.edu/~lps/ lps@andrew.cmu.edu "Just because you're floating doesn't mean * This space inadvertently you haven't drowned." -They Might Be Giants * left with stuff in it. ------------------------------ Message-ID: Date: Tue, 6 Apr 1999 15:27:13 -0400 (EDT) From: Lawrence P Solomon Subject: Re: TMBG: Maybe another Futurama TMBG ref? Excerpts from internet.music.tmbg: 6-Apr-99 Re: TMBG: Maybe another Fut.. by "Todd Wetherbee"@hotmail > Okay, TMBG might have used the word 'the' a few times, but I'd hardly > consider someone else saying 'the' to be a TMBG reference. I don't know > who said that, but they're probably pretty slow-witted. However, while ugh. you don't even understand hyperbole. I was *exaggerating* to make a point. No, no one has said "THE is a TMBG reference." But a lot of times, people will pick on very little things, common phrases, even, that TMBG have used, and claim they're references. Lawrence Solomon http://www.contrib.andrew.cmu.edu/~lps/ lps@andrew.cmu.edu "Just because you're floating doesn't mean * This space inadvertently you haven't drowned." -They Might Be Giants * left with stuff in it. ------------------------------ From: GhostKrabb@webtv.net (Dexter Flansburgh) Date: Tue, 6 Apr 1999 12:41:01 -0700 (PDT) Subject: TMBG: Vote on TRL Message-ID: <4318-370A634D-1539@mailtod-242.iap.bryant.webtv.net> Okay, since it now seems that MTV does not possess Dr. Worm, I've made the proper adjustments to my sig for the voting thing. Check it out below. And I urge everyone to pitch in. I'll post this a few more times before the date below so you all can be reminded. me, Dexburger copecopecopecopecopecopecopecopecope Go here: http://www.mtv.com/mtv/tubescan/totalrequest2/playmy/playmy.tin?sPollName=reqmain or call 1-800-Dial-MTV to request They Might Be Giants' video "Don't Let's Start" on Tuesday, April 13th to be shown on MTV's "Total Request Live" 'cause They deserve it! ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 6 May 1999 13:52:15 -0400 Subject: Re: TMBG: Maybe another Futurama TMBG ref? Message-ID: <19990506.135219.2974.2.Phone_Book@juno.com> From: i think my name is jay or not Remember, because you can't see it means it doesn't exist! On Tue, 6 Apr 1999 09:51:26 -0400 (EDT) Lawrence P Solomon writes: >I'm not annoyed at people for not knowing. There is no crime in not >knowing something. I'm bothered, though, when people who don't know >something speak as if they do. GOT IT?!?!? UNDERSTAND?! probably >not, but it's worth a try. I call things as they seem. Patience is a virtue, sir: and it would seem, in your lack of it, that your anger is because of not knowing. If it isn't, then why let yourself be bothered by it? *That* is why I tell you to lighten up. >And don't tell *ME* to lighten up, since you're the one who addresses >everyone so formally. I have a name. Are you so full of contempt >that you have to speak to me in this condescending manner? My intent is not condescension. My intent is politeness. I never called you Mr. Solomon to effect a matronly attitude; I mean only to be as polite as possible to those with whom I'm not truly acquainted. Understand? Probably not, but it's worth a try. This comes naturally to me, and does not affect my thoughts. Only the way I say them. peace, love, and good happiness stuff, jay. ___________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] ------------------------------ Message-Id: <199904062003.QAA90854@f04n01.cac.psu.edu> Date: Tue, 06 Apr 1999 16:04:44 -0400 From: Jason Fickley Subject: Re: TMBG: Maybe another Futurama TMBG ref? At 03:24 PM 4/6/99 -0400, Lawrence P Solomon wrote: >But they >have the attitude (and I agree) that being off-beat/quirky really has an >intent to it. If they're intending one thing and coming off as another, >that's not entirely their problem. True, it's not their problem, but if they're coming off as being off-beat, as you said, you can't fault someone for calling them that whether it was intended or not. --Jason-- ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 6 May 1999 14:01:35 -0400 Subject: Re: TMBG: Maybe another Futurama TMBG ref? Message-ID: <19990506.140138.2974.3.Phone_Book@juno.com> From: i think my name is jay or not Remember, because you can't see it means it doesn't exist! On Tue, 6 Apr 1999 09:19:55 -0400 (EDT) Lawrence P Solomon writes: > >are you not reading my post? are you just assuming I'm attacking you? > >apparently. There is nothing wrong with being uncertain, as long as >one makes the admission to being so. Let me state it clearly and >maybe, just maybe, you all will pick up on it... >It's bad when you are not certain about something AND state it as if >you are certain about it. It's ignorant, hypocritical, and shows that >you probably don't even care if you're wrong. THAT is what I have a >problem with. Your self righteous attitude bothers me greatly, and now I'm aware that I'm not the only one. Quite obviously you wrongly believe yourself better and more astute than we, and I wish I were here so I could say this as slowly as possible in the hope that you could then pick up on it. If one wrongly believes himself correct, or close to correct, and states what believes as fact, then he is making a mistake. But it is not a moral, deadly sin, and we, in our greater knowledge, can point out his wrongdoing with a minimum of fuss. Your anger at these things serves only to make you look ... well, like an ass. peace, love, and good happiness stuff, jay, the lists most formal member! is there a prize for that? ___________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] ------------------------------ Message-ID: <19990406205615.38162.qmail@hotmail.com> From: "Todd Wetherbee" Subject: Re: TMBG: Maybe another Futurama TMBG ref? Date: Tue, 06 Apr 1999 13:56:14 PDT >Excerpts from internet.music.tmbg: 6-Apr-99 Re: TMBG: Maybe another >Fut.. by "Todd Wetherbee"@hotmail >> Okay, TMBG might have used the word 'the' a few times, but I'd hardly >> consider someone else saying 'the' to be a TMBG reference. I don't know >> who said that, but they're probably pretty slow-witted. However, while > >ugh. you don't even understand hyperbole. I was *exaggerating* to make >a point. Well, you were pretty vague about it don't you think? When people *don't* include the context to make it clear that they're *exaggerating*, and since there are many common misconceptions about TMBG references (or lack thereof) out there, it gets a little extreme at times. > No, no one has said "THE is a TMBG reference." Well, I would hope not. 'the' is obviously a Moxy Fruvous reference. >But a lot of >times, people will pick on very little things, common phrases, even, >that TMBG have used, and claim they're references. Are you saying that's bad? I suppose you're implying that my theory about 'in' and Sheriff Taylor is untrue. I hereby rescind my vote for you as official list policeman. Smell me hard. > >Lawrence Solomon http://www.contrib.andrew.cmu.edu/~lps/ lps@andrew.cmu.edu >"Just because you're floating doesn't mean * This space inadvertently > you haven't drowned." -They Might Be Giants * left with stuff in it. > Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ From: linnel@snet.net Message-Id: <199904062100.RAA06386@pop.snet.net> Date: Tue, 6 Apr 1999 16:04:33 -0400 Subject: Re: TMBG: Maybe another Futurama TMBG ref? > that's a little more blatant a reference, though. although, I still > think they should never post these things as facts unless they know. > That is *probably* a TMBG reference, but it could just be a coincidence. > The point is we don't know for sure. It's a matter of how you phrase > it. If you say "It's a TMBG reference!" then you're claiming to know > for sure. whoa. #1- not to get on your case, but perhaps some of these references are blatant. remember, everyone has a different measure of blantantness. #2- (i like this numbering bit...) the communists are coming. #3- i can see what you mean in a way, but now it's just getting nit- picky. i can't recall anyone ever saying, "FACT: there was a tmbg reference FILL IN PLACE. this is without a doubt true. there is no room for discussion." instead, they say something to the extent of, "hey! tmbg reference in FILL IN PLACE where they said this- blah blah blah, and that seems to directly pertain to FILL IN TMBG RELEVANCE." now, i personally don't see anything wrong with this sort of post, and if there's something that perhaps points in the non- tmbg reference direction, it should by all means be posted. but i think it's getting a little insane to complain about it. so maybe they were wrong... big woop. and maybe they didn't label their post with DISCLAIMER: THIS MAY NOT BE TRUE, BUT I'M NOT GOING TO TRY TO FORCE IT DOWN YOUR THROAT AS FACT ANYWAY SO I DON'T KNOW WHY PEOPLE ARE COMPLAINING. I JUST THOUGHT IT WAS NEAT before they get to proceed with the originally planned post. sheesh. where are the green jellyfish when you need a cream refilling in your ear? jen- the one who forces you to think of different ways to insult someone without using the words "butt" or "head". ------------------------------ Message-ID: Date: Tue, 6 Apr 1999 17:42:26 -0400 (EDT) From: Lawrence P Solomon Subject: Re: TMBG: Maybe another Futurama TMBG ref? Excerpts from internet.music.tmbg: 6-May-99 Re: TMBG: Maybe another Fut.. by i my n. is j. or not@jun > I call things as they seem. Patience is a virtue, sir: and it would > seem, in your lack of it, that your anger is because of not knowing. If > it isn't, then why let yourself be bothered by it? *That* is why I tell > you to lighten up. no, I simply made a statement that not everything is necessarily a TMBG reference. and you all went off. > My intent is not condescension. My intent is politeness. I never called > you Mr. Solomon to effect a matronly attitude; I mean only to be as > polite as possible to those with whom I'm not truly acquainted. > Understand? Probably not, but it's worth a try. This comes naturally to > me, and does not affect my thoughts. Only the way I say them. if I didn't want to be called by my first name, you wouldn't know what it was. and in an argument, especially given some of the phrasing you've used, the "sirs" and "Mr. Solomons" have come across as very condescending. Lawrence Solomon http://www.contrib.andrew.cmu.edu/~lps/ lps@andrew.cmu.edu "Just because you're floating doesn't mean * This space inadvertently you haven't drowned." -They Might Be Giants * left with stuff in it. ------------------------------ Message-ID: Date: Tue, 6 Apr 1999 17:45:23 -0400 (EDT) From: Lawrence P Solomon Subject: Re: TMBG: Maybe another Futurama TMBG ref? Excerpts from internet.music.tmbg: 6-May-99 Re: TMBG: Maybe another Fut.. by i my n. is j. or not@jun > Your self righteous attitude bothers me greatly, and now I'm aware that self-righteous? I never said I've never done that. I never said that I am always right. I said I have a problem with something. > I'm not the only one. Quite obviously you wrongly believe yourself > better and more astute than we, and I wish I were here so I could say > this as slowly as possible in the hope that you could then pick up on it. I'm not saying I'm better. But most people would agree that it's a bad idea to spout of opinions as facts. THAT IS ALL I'M SAYING. But no one is getting it. > If one wrongly believes himself correct, or close to correct, and states > what believes as fact, then he is making a mistake. But it is not a > moral, deadly sin, and we, in our greater knowledge, can point out his > wrongdoing with a minimum of fuss. Your anger at these things serves > only to make you look ... well, like an ass. To you, maybe. But you appear to view everyone as an ass, so what's the big deal? All I did was point out that not everything is a TMBG reference, and YOU started on this whole rant... Lawrence Solomon http://www.contrib.andrew.cmu.edu/~lps/ lps@andrew.cmu.edu "Just because you're floating doesn't mean * This space inadvertently you haven't drowned." -They Might Be Giants * left with stuff in it. ------------------------------ Message-ID: <370A8030.EEF7FA6E@sevenlands.com> Date: Tue, 06 Apr 1999 17:44:16 -0400 From: carlyn nugent Subject: Re: TMBG: Maybe another Futurama TMBG ref? Apologies to linnel@snet.net...I sent this to that address instead of the group. Damn that "reply" button! carlyn nugent wrote: > > I just want to say that there are definite, absolutely unquestionable > TMBG references in at least one place. No one on this list will ever be > likely to see these references, but they do exist. > > I write documentation for software systems...Any time I need a sample > data entry screen illustrated with information on a person (e.g., > employee, customer, etc.), the Johns' names will be there...guaranteed. > So, if you happen to work for one of our software clients and happen to > be reading the manual or consulting the help file and think you see a > TMBG reference. You do. > > (I've recently started designing websites for clients as well...I'll use > every available opportunity to reference TMBG there, too...) > > CN > > linnel@snet.net wrote: > > > > > that's a little more blatant a reference, though. although, I still > > > think they should never post these things as facts unless they know. > > > That is *probably* a TMBG reference, but it could just be a coincidence. > > > The point is we don't know for sure. It's a matter of how you phrase > > > it. If you say "It's a TMBG reference!" then you're claiming to know > > > for sure. > > > > whoa. #1- not to get on your case, but perhaps some of these > > references are blatant. remember, everyone has a different > > measure of blantantness. > > > > #2- (i like this numbering bit...) the communists are coming. > > > > #3- i can see what you mean in a way, but now it's just getting nit- > > picky. i can't recall anyone ever saying, "FACT: there was a tmbg > > reference FILL IN PLACE. this is without a doubt true. there is no > > room for discussion." instead, they say something to the extent of, > > "hey! tmbg reference in FILL IN PLACE where they said this- blah > > blah blah, and that seems to directly pertain to FILL IN TMBG > > RELEVANCE." now, i personally don't see anything wrong with this > > sort of post, and if there's something that perhaps points in the non- > > tmbg reference direction, it should by all means be posted. but i > > think it's getting a little insane to complain about it. so maybe they > > were wrong... big woop. and maybe they didn't label their post with > > DISCLAIMER: THIS MAY NOT BE TRUE, BUT I'M NOT GOING > > TO TRY TO FORCE IT DOWN YOUR THROAT AS FACT > > ANYWAY SO I DON'T KNOW WHY PEOPLE ARE > > COMPLAINING. I JUST THOUGHT IT WAS NEAT before they get > > to proceed with the originally planned post. > > > > sheesh. where are the green jellyfish when you need a cream > > refilling in your ear? > > > > jen- the one who forces you to think of different ways > > to insult someone without using the words "butt" or "head". ------------------------------ Message-ID: Date: Tue, 6 Apr 1999 17:48:55 -0400 (EDT) From: Lawrence P Solomon Subject: Re: TMBG: Maybe another Futurama TMBG ref? Excerpts from internet.music.tmbg: 6-Apr-99 Re: TMBG: Maybe another Fut.. by "Todd Wetherbee"@hotmail > Well, you were pretty vague about it don't you think? When people *don't* > include the context to make it clear that they're *exaggerating*, and since > there are many common misconceptions about TMBG references (or lack > thereof) out there, it gets a little extreme at times. not really... I think it's pretty obvious to most people (maybe not you) that no one would think "The" is a TMBG reference. > Well, I would hope not. 'the' is obviously a Moxy Fruvous reference. of course. "Once I was *THE* King of Spain." very clear reference. :) > Are you saying that's bad? I suppose you're implying that my theory > about 'in' and Sheriff Taylor is untrue. I hereby rescind my vote for > you as official list policeman. Smell me hard. I'm not saying it's bad to look for them, and pick up on them, but just being careful as to what I assume about someone else without really knowing. In a way, anything someone says is a reference, whether it is or not, becomes so when a person believes it is - to that person it can be a reference. However, it doesn't mean that the people writing it intended it as a reference, and one can't very well say "There are TMBG references in such-and-such" as a fact unless they know for sure. Lawrence Solomon http://www.contrib.andrew.cmu.edu/~lps/ lps@andrew.cmu.edu "Just because you're floating doesn't mean * This space inadvertently you haven't drowned." -They Might Be Giants * left with stuff in it. ------------------------------ Message-ID: Date: Tue, 6 Apr 1999 17:51:05 -0400 (EDT) From: Lawrence P Solomon Subject: Re: TMBG: Maybe another Futurama TMBG ref? Excerpts from internet.music.tmbg: 6-Apr-99 Re: TMBG: Maybe another Fut.. by linnel@snet.net > #3- i can see what you mean in a way, but now it's just getting nit- > picky. i can't recall anyone ever saying, "FACT: there was a tmbg > reference FILL IN PLACE. this is without a doubt true. there is no > room for discussion." instead, they say something to the extent of, > "hey! tmbg reference in FILL IN PLACE where they said this- blah > blah blah, and that seems to directly pertain to FILL IN TMBG > RELEVANCE." now, i personally don't see anything wrong with this it may be nitpicky, but one has to nitpick when it's the only way to get a point across (even that doesn't seem to be working) Also, since everyone else seems to be nitpicking fairly hard, I figured why not? Lawrence Solomon http://www.contrib.andrew.cmu.edu/~lps/ lps@andrew.cmu.edu "Just because you're floating doesn't mean * This space inadvertently you haven't drowned." -They Might Be Giants * left with stuff in it. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 6 Apr 1999 16:14:36 -0600 (MDT) From: Jim Kuemmerle Subject: TMBG: is it a TMBG reference or is it memorex? Message-ID: alright. i have been forced to use much of today to slog through this futurama argument and all the arguments that have been spawned from it. i would've spoken earlier, but i'm waaaaay behind on my e-mail. waaaaaaaaay behind. and i'm not very happy that i ended up reading through umpteen posts about jay and lawrence arguing with each other when i really did want to read about the futurama/TMBG connection. so this post will contain just the slightest amount of annoyance, but please recall that i really am a nice guy and have no ill will toward anybody here. anyway. on with the countdown. 1 -- given the fact that there have been numerous difficult-to-dispute tmbg references, such as the "memo to myself", the whale vs. squid t-shirt, etc., etc., on the simpsons, i submit the argument that we can safely consider matt groenig (sp?) to be aware of and conversant in tmbg's repertoire. 2 -- therefore, i consider it to be perfectly reasonable to consider the "destination moon" ride on futurama as a possible tmbg reference. (aside to LPS -- yes, i know that's not what your point was; i just wanted to get it out of the way.) 3 -- that having been said, i don't think it's exactly fair to ask for uncertainty where one's experience doesn't warrant. to illustrate: our good friend dexburger had never experienced beat literature, ginsberg, kerouac, or otherwise. he *is*, however, rather familiar with the music of They. thus, when he heard "i should be allowed to think," the phrase "i saw the best minds of my generation destroyed by madness, starving, hysterical...", he filed it under TMBG. now, granted, it says in the liner notes to john henry that the first line was from allen ginsberg, but if you don't know who allen ginsberg *is*, you're still going to file it under TMBG. thus, when he happened upon the same phrase in some other context, where did his mind go? to the folder marked "They", not to the (nonexistent) folder marked "allen ginsberg". therefore, having no cognitive reason to think otherwise, he considers it a bona fide and rather specific reference to TMBG. 3b-- i know there are holes in the specific example i used, but pick a different example, and i believe the logic still applies. 4 -- "destination moon" is a significantly more obscure source reference than "howl", and is thus that much more likely to be a reference to TMBG than to the original. that is, there are tmbg referrers who don't know the source material, and the existence of source material doesn't preclude that it might actually be a tmbg reference after all. 5 -- i think that's it, except for one final request. lawrence, jay, could you please either (a) change the subject line on your argument (since it is no longer about futurama, and i for one have no interest in your argument and would like to delete those posts without deleting posts about the futurama reference itself (in which i am very much interested)) or (b) take your argument off-list? --jim kuemmerle, who now returns you to your regularly scheduled nitpicking and bickering... j.kuemmerle@m.cc.utah.edu http://www.geocities.com/soho/gallery/4668/ ::sigh::... mike leffel, where are you? ------------------------------ End of tmbg-list Digest #16-32 ******************************