Errors-To: owner-tmbg-digest@tmbg.org Reply-To: tmbg-digest@tmbg.org Sender: owner-tmbg-digest@tmbg.org Precedence: bulk From: owner-tmbg-digest@tmbg.org To: tmbg-digest@tmbg.org Subject: tmbg-list Digest #16-8 tmbg-list Digest, Volume 16, Number 8 Monday, 8 March 1999 Today's Topics: Re: TMBG: non-tmbg: a matter of respect Re: TMBG: Re: non-tmbg: a matter of respect Re: TMBG: non-tmbg: a matter of respect Re: NON-TMBG: Us Newbies "fitting in" Re: TMBG:TMBG in Entertainment Weekly/Video Comp Re: NON TMBG: Hitchhiker's news flash! Re: TMBG: non-tmbg: a matter of respect TMBG: regular or newbie? TMBG: Teen Heroes TMBG: non-tmbg: last thing Re: TMBG: regular or newbie? Re: NON-TMBG: Us Newbies "fitting in" Re: TMBG: regular or newbie? Re: TMBG: regular or newbie? Re: TMBG: regular or newbie? RE: Non-TMBG: Stanley Kubrick Dead Re: TMBG: regular or newbie? Re: TMBG: regular or newbie? Re: TMBG: regular or newbie? Re: TMBG: Tape trading Re: TMBG: regular or newbie? Re: TMBG: Tape trading Re: TMBG: Tape trading Re: TMBG: regular or newbie? Re: TMBG: regular or newbie? Re: NON-TMBG: Us Newbies "fitting in"'m a regular" Re: TMBG: Tape trading TMBG: OFF TOPIC: I'm (not) the Biggest One Re: TMBG: OFF TOPIC: I'm (not) the Biggest One Re: TMBG: Tape trading Re: non-TMBG: tape trading Re: NON-TMBG: a matter of respect Re: non-TMBG: off-topic wonderment Re: TMBG: regular or newbie? TMBG: Re: OFF TOPIC: I'm (not) the Biggest One NON-TMBG: On/Off topic posts... Administrivia: If you wish to unsubscribe from this mailing send mail to tmbg-digest-request@tmbg.org for instructions on how to be automatically removed. --------------------------------------------------------------------- The views expressed herein are those of the individual authors. --------------------------------------------------------------------- tmbg-list is digested with Digest 3.5b (John Relph ). ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sun, 07 Mar 1999 02:03:10 -0600 From: Bob Scott Message-ID: <36E232BE.3091C8E6@tmbg.org> Organization: They Might Be Giants, Unofficially http://www.tmbg.org Subject: Re: TMBG: non-tmbg: a matter of respect tmbgirl@juno.com wrote: > try bob scott... eh? I'm both cool and refreshing! With a twist of Lime-on... bobscott@tmbg.org AKA Bob "King of not being Mike Leffel" Scott ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 07 Mar 1999 02:01:01 -0600 From: Bob Scott Message-ID: <36E2323C.63E1C066@tmbg.org> Organization: They Might Be Giants, Unofficially http://www.tmbg.org Subject: Re: TMBG: Re: non-tmbg: a matter of respect I was actually referring to my own ego problem... :P Sorry for any confusion my blatherings have caused :) bobscott@tmbg.org AKA Bob "If a man can marry a car, I can use it as a humourous device!" Scott http://members.theglobe.com/bobscott/default.html As off-topic as it gets! Kevin Keeler wrote: > Actually, I find his(?) post very non-egotistical. > > in a sense, its difficult to tell someone they have an ego problem without > having it sound (to some) like you have the same problem. dont take this > to mean that the comment "you have an ego problem" should never be stated. > > if "i don't think i, or the band for that matter, could ever fit in the > same room with your ego." doesnt qualify as humble enough, i would be very > interested in hearing a moer appropriate version. > > personally, i've never been particularly offended by jordan.. but mostly i > just read the headers so i dont consider myself too "in the groove". > > and my post is equally off topic..... but guess what? > > WE ALL KNOW THAT POSTS LAMENTING 'OFF-TOPIC' ARE THEMSELVES OFF-TOPIC. > so no one say anything. :p > > --kevin > > On Sat, 6 Mar 1999, Bob Scott wrote: > > > Ben Knowles wrote: > > > > > don't worry about running into me at any shows. i don't think i, or the > > > band for that matter, could ever fit in the same room with your ego. > > > > > > > I think someone here has an ego problem, but from the look of this message, I > > think it's safe to say it isn't Jordan... I also find it quite off-topic ;) > > ------------------------------ From: LimeZinger@aol.com Message-ID: Date: Sun, 7 Mar 1999 03:07:14 EST Subject: Re: TMBG: non-tmbg: a matter of respect In a message dated 3/7/99 3:04:31 AM, bobscott@tmbg.org writes: >I'm both cool and refreshing! With a twist of Lime-on... dammit, no, that's ME! you're the one with the insouciant hint of lemon zest, remember, mr. lemon curry? ;) sarah working in the newsradio references http://members.aol.com/limezinger now playing: xtc "i'd like that" "... say a sunfloooooower" ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 07 Mar 1999 02:14:06 -0600 From: Bob Scott Message-ID: <36E2354E.EDF0B5AD@tmbg.org> Organization: They Might Be Giants, Unofficially http://www.tmbg.org Subject: Re: NON-TMBG: Us Newbies "fitting in" Dexter Flansburgh wrote: > And > also, what does it take to be one of the "list celebrities?" You know, > like Leffel? There's one simple step: Accuse chestnuts of being lazy. From there, it can only go downhill... bobscott@tmbg.org AKA Bob "Who feels somewhat like a regular thanks to Metamucel" Scott ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 07 Mar 1999 02:20:07 -0600 From: Bob Scott Message-ID: <36E236B7.35AED56E@tmbg.org> Organization: They Might Be Giants, Unofficially http://www.tmbg.org Subject: Re: TMBG:TMBG in Entertainment Weekly/Video Comp LOADTMBG@aol.com wrote: > > The online record company (www.goodnoise.com) finally snared a > high-profile act by welcoming quirk-rockers They Might Be Giants to its MP3 > fold, offering the group's back catalog for download at $9 and album. " Once again, we see the 'Q' word being used to describe TMBG. Couldn't they try something like 'irreverent'? Maybe 'Smart' (as Ween would say)? Perhaps even just 'alternative'? I'd rather see them described as 'Latvian Polka' than as 'quirky'. Someday, there will be justice, and it's name will be Linda, and it will be good. What it will do about this whole 'Q' word issue remains to be seen... bobscott@tmbg.org AKA Bob "Stand-in for Burt Bacharach" Scott ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 07 Mar 1999 02:28:32 -0600 From: Bob Scott Message-ID: <36E238AF.35E78E67@tmbg.org> Organization: They Might Be Giants, Unofficially http://www.tmbg.org Subject: Re: NON TMBG: Hitchhiker's news flash! Claire V Gray wrote: > Well what about the Dial-A-Song smash hit, 4 of 2 There's that, and the fact that 32 Footsteps is only 10 away from 42. ;) And that whole Elvis reference that's noticed by few, since it doesn't really exist in "Why Must I Be Sad" (Replace Alice with Elvis, and it makes less sense). And we can't forget James K. Polk! bobscott@tmbg.org AKA Bob "W" Scott ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 07 Mar 1999 02:35:06 -0600 From: Bob Scott Message-ID: <36E23A3A.9A2B652F@tmbg.org> Organization: They Might Be Giants, Unofficially http://www.tmbg.org Subject: Re: TMBG: non-tmbg: a matter of respect LimeZinger@aol.com wrote: > In a message dated 3/7/99 3:04:31 AM, bobscott@tmbg.org writes: > > >I'm both cool and refreshing! With a twist of Lime-on... > > dammit, no, that's ME! you're the one with the insouciant hint of lemon zest, > remember, mr. lemon curry? ;) Lemon curry? (I couldn't resist! :) bobscott@tmbg.org AKA Bob "Likes to post his AKA name in every goddamn message" Scott ------------------------------ From: njh23@email.byu.edu Date: Sun, 07 Mar 1999 02:42:21 -0700 Subject: TMBG: regular or newbie? Message-id: <3.0.6.32.19990307024221.007b7630@email.byu.edu> I think there is a third category..... trusty member. I have been on the list since approximately 1994 (how many people still remember the old TMBG site that wasn't tmbg.org? some weird place that i can't remember now. Or how about when the list died for at least a week or two?) I have posted man times, but there was a large time interval between each one. My point.. must return to point. Newbies don't graduate, they become more familiar with the list. They don't have to post much (at all?) lurking is a viable (if not too exciting) option. Trusty members are there when it counts (any specific instances?) . they don't have to post or particiapte in the wars that occur at times. What I am trying to say is that a newbie is someone unfamiliar with the list and it's history. Those who feel like a part of the community are no longer newbies. They could be considered regulars or trusty members, or something else. Official Lurkers perhaps? Anakin "when you go..... go as Mr. underhill"-Gandalf from "Lord of the Rings" ------------------------------ Message-Id: <3.0.3.32.19990307094356.007fec70@pop.fast.net> Date: Sun, 07 Mar 1999 09:43:56 -0500 From: Jesse Richman Subject: TMBG: Teen Heroes Welp I went to see Reel Big Fish last nite, and Teen Heroes were one of the openers, they kicked much ass. I know they were at the philly TMBG/RBF show, what did you guys think of em? Anyone know anything more about em? ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Jesse Richman Fear is strangely comfortable hrichman@fast.net +Live+ jesseboy@brandeis.edu And although we were very thirsty Xopchipili@aol.com I questioned the oasis +Live+ Each new BELIEF is a LIMITED SET to be TRANSCENDED The Shamen ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 07 Mar 1999 09:50:11 -0500 (EST) From: beknowles@vassar.edu (Ben Knowles) Subject: TMBG: non-tmbg: last thing Message-id: <01J8JM355BBM00L3Z6@VASSAR.EDU> i told jordan i wasn't going to post to the list about this, but i changed my mind after reading the digest... i'd like to point out that i feel i have been getting flamed for something i didn't say. my original post had to do with the following: 1) that jordan's statement ("these are topics that interest the majority of the people on this list") was patently false, 2) that jordan has a tendency to be disrespectful, and 3) that people that post many times a day for no particular reason (ie. "blathering") are annoying, but that we stay on the list anyway because occasionally people (yes, even that hoochie jordan) have interesting things to say. (note: i did not say "interesting tmbg-related things." note #2: if i posted as often as jordan does, i bet i'd have at least same proportion of "interesting" or "substantial" posts. unfortunately, i have neither the time nor the inclination. sorry.) i never said anything about off-topic posts or moderated lists - all stuff that jordan concocted in her head and accused me of, either publicly or privately. read: I LIKE OFF-TOPIC POSTS. okay? i agree with all of you: the delete key is my friend. i use it often. thank you. i hate they must be giants. ben ps. the s~e~x~x~y discussion has convinced me that flans is talking about a full-blown cross-dressing gay dude here. either that, or it's an interesting take on chromasomal abberations. either way, i think it's awesome. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 7 Mar 1999 10:11:02 -0500 Subject: Re: TMBG: regular or newbie? Message-ID: <19990307.101106.2710.0.hotel_detective1@juno.com> From: e f rae >>What I am trying to say is that a newbie is someone unfamiliar with the list and it's history. Well, I've gathered a bit of familiarity with this list, I'm familiar with who many of the list "celebrities" like Bob Scott or Jordan or Sarah - well, whether they're considered celebs or not by everyone else, I've grown used to seeing their posts. (although I doubt you guys take much notice of me... Mr. Scott, if I ask for your autograph, will you put an AKA name in it? ) As for history though... I don't know who The Mister Omnipotent Mike Leffel is (although, from what I gathered, perhaps He's beyond description). So I guess I'm a newbie. But then, someone said if you start a thread, you kind of count as a regular and I started the favorite John thing. So maybe I'm a regular by now... DAMMIT! I give up trying to figure this out. Just none of you eat me yet until I decide. And I don't taste like orange cough medicine, really! ever-sincere, eriKa, who will just call herself a "newbular." "It's been cool to be cool for too long now and now it's cool not to be cool." - Ben Folds ___________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] ------------------------------ From: GhostKrabb@webtv.net (Dexter Flansburgh) Date: Sun, 7 Mar 1999 10:00:39 -0800 (PST) Subject: Re: NON-TMBG: Us Newbies "fitting in" Message-ID: <18269-36E2BEC7-257@mailtod-242.iap.bryant.webtv.net> Bob Scott wrote: There's one simple step: Accuse chestnuts of being lazy. From there, it can only go downhill... You know guys, I've been thinking, and I realized...CHESTNUTS ARE REALLY LAZY! There, was that good?! Am I celebrity now?! ooooh, I hope so, Dexburger ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 07 Mar 1999 12:26:17 -0600 From: Bob Scott Message-ID: <36E2C4C9.96EDC666@tmbg.org> Organization: They Might Be Giants, Unofficially http://www.tmbg.org Subject: Re: TMBG: regular or newbie? e f rae wrote: > Well, I've gathered a bit of familiarity with this list, I'm familiar > with who many of the list "celebrities" like Bob Scott or Jordan or Sarah > - well, whether they're considered celebs or not by everyone else, I've > grown used to seeing their posts. (although I doubt you guys take much > notice of me... Mr. Scott, if I ask for your autograph, will you put an > AKA name in it? ) Now, I'm being called a celebrity? Just after the death of Stanley Kubrick (one of my personal heroes), this truly makes my day. > As for history though... I don't know who The Mister > Omnipotent Mike Leffel is (although, from what I gathered, perhaps He's > beyond description). We just describe him as being beyond description, but if you know him personally, even then, you cannot understand the true enigma that is Mabus. > So I guess I'm a newbie. But then, someone said if > you start a thread, you kind of count as a regular and I started the > favorite John thing. So maybe I'm a regular by now... I've seen your name enough, I consider you a 'regular', though I find that term derogatory to certain types of gasoline which are frowned upon, and non-super-sized meals at certain restaurants. > ever-sincere, > eriKa, > who will just call herself a "newbular." Make that Nubular Tubular, and it's almost an MST3K reference, though I can't for the life of me know why... bobscott@tmbg.org AKA Bob "If I signed my name like this, it would be fraudulent" Scott ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 7 Mar 1999 13:47:44 -0500 (EST) From: "Kirsten L. Brodbeck" Subject: Re: TMBG: regular or newbie? Message-ID: On Sun, 7 Mar 1999 njh23@email.byu.edu wrote: > Trusty members are there when it > counts (any specific instances?) I like "trusty member"; it's sort of like a regular, only more lurk-ish. I've been a trusty member lately, because I know nothing about B Movies, and the on-topic, off-topic debate ceased to interest me a long time ago... I've never been especially high-profile; I was frankly surprised and pleased when people remembered me and welcomed me back after a long hiatus. Anyway, I think people really come into their own on this list, and any other one, when they reach the point where they don't have to reply to everything, and their opinions are respected because they generally tend to seem like People Who Know What They're Talking About. Kirsten "Tangled in the fallen vines, picking up the punchlines I know I'm faking it..." - Simon & Garfunkel, "Fakin' It" ------------------------------ From: EmarZero@aol.com Message-ID: <9780384c.36e2caea@aol.com> Date: Sun, 7 Mar 1999 13:52:26 EST Subject: Re: TMBG: regular or newbie? In a message dated 99-03-07 13:28:42 EST, bobscott@tmbg.org writes: > Just after the death of Stanley Kubrick WTF? When did THIS happen? ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 07 Mar 1999 13:02:25 -0600 From: Bob Scott Message-ID: <36E2CD41.BDB96BDD@tmbg.org> Organization: They Might Be Giants, Unofficially http://www.tmbg.org Subject: RE: Non-TMBG: Stanley Kubrick Dead EmarZero@aol.com wrote: > In a message dated 99-03-07 13:28:42 EST, bobscott@tmbg.org writes: > > > Just after the death of Stanley Kubrick > > WTF? When did THIS happen? Stanley Kubrick passed on sometime in the last few days. It was just on ABC news at noon. Saying I was stunned is an understatement, as I've been following Kubrick's movies for quite some time. Perhaps, in his memory, people will flock to see 'Eyes Wide Shut' this summer. I know I will. bobscott@tmbg.org AKA Bob "Planning to watch a Stanley Kubrick movie or 2 today to reminisce" Scott http://members.theglobe.com/bobscott/default.html Where I've failed to mention Stanley Kubrick for far too long. ------------------------------ Message-Id: <3.0.6.32.19990307133207.0088d100@pop.mindspring.com > Date: Sun, 07 Mar 1999 13:32:07 -0600 From: El Dee Bee Subject: Re: TMBG: regular or newbie? >> Well, I've gathered a bit of familiarity with this list, I'm familiar >> with who many of the list "celebrities" like Bob Scott or Jordan or Sarah >> - well, whether they're considered celebs or not by everyone else, I've >> grown used to seeing their posts. (although I doubt you guys take much >> notice of me... Mr. Scott, if I ask for your autograph, will you put an >> AKA name in it? ) > >Now, I'm being called a celebrity? Just after the death of Stanley Kubrick >(one of my personal heroes), this truly makes my day. > I'm sorry Bob, you only have ill gotten fame. You are just leaching off your celeb status from Mr. Man, Mike "The A Stands for Walter" Leffel. You are like anybody who knows anyone special, you are just a poor little leach. And Kubrick shall be missed great. There is a hole that won't soon be filled. >> As for history though... I don't know who The Mister >> Omnipotent Mike Leffel is (although, from what I gathered, perhaps He's >> beyond description). > >We just describe him as being beyond description, but if you know him >personally, even then, you cannot understand the true enigma that is Mabus. > Actually, I've been known to describe Mike "I ate your sould for Breakfast" Leffel as such: Dicen que Mike Leffel usado para vagar esto aqui enumeran. El secuestraria lurker pequenos mientras que nadie miraba. Algunos han demandado verlo. Algunos niegan su existance. Aunque ningunos pueden negar que muchos lo piensa en como dios. Doscientos pies de alto el era, pero do solamente adentro en seis libras cuatro onzas. Entonces un dia, el Leffel disapeared y acaba de demandarlo estaria detras. Todos sentamos para Leffel aqui que espera para ser reborn. Para decir nos nos hemos perdido nuestras vidas enteras que lo adoraban. L "is not for leffel" DB -- http://www.lucidx.com/is My egotistical webpage, links to all the webpages I don't keep in my sig. -- http://www.mp3.com/idolv Download some of my music. -- http://members.xoom.com/MaxxIda/ The Official Sam Kieth Webpage - The Maxx IDA -- Contemporary Cartoon Militia is (C) & TM 1998 S. Steven Struble and Kris W. M. Struble. | The Li'l Depressed Boy, Phreeck, Spyder Hunt, and all related characters (C) & TM 1998 S. Steven Struble ------------------------------ From: LimeZinger@aol.com Message-ID: <8a6a39c8.36e2d71a@aol.com> Date: Sun, 7 Mar 1999 14:44:26 EST Subject: Re: TMBG: regular or newbie? In a message dated 3/7/99 2:38:33 PM, LDB@tmbg.org writes: >>Now, I'm being called a celebrity? Just after the death of Stanley Kubrick > >>(one of my personal heroes), this truly makes my day. > >> > >I'm sorry Bob, you only have ill gotten fame. You are just leaching off > >your celeb status from Mr. Man, Mike "The A Stands for Walter" Leffel. > You > >are like anybody who knows anyone special, you are just a poor little leach. > hey! he's a new celebrity, but a celebrity nonetheless. or to throw in a kids in the hall reference: "a small c celebrity"? :) or, can list celebrities like myself nominate people in as celebrities? because i nominate mr. bob scott then. because... he's... keen, and he's as good as orange flavoured cough medicine, yeah! woo! sarah http://members.aol.com/limezinger ------------------------------ Message-Id: <3.0.6.32.19990307134749.00893e80@pop.mindspring.com > Date: Sun, 07 Mar 1999 13:47:49 -0600 From: El Dee Bee Subject: Re: TMBG: regular or newbie? >hey! he's a new celebrity, but a celebrity nonetheless. or to throw in a kids >in the hall reference: "a small c celebrity"? :) or, can list celebrities like >myself nominate people in as celebrities? because i nominate mr. bob scott >then. because... he's... keen, and he's as good as orange flavoured cough >medicine, yeah! > Hey, maybe I'm just bitter that I was left off of the great "these folks rock my socks, and kill my parents" celeberty list. I remember the days way back when, when I killed for a living and posted cryptic messages about Mike "Fred Sanford is coming to see ya" Leffel in other languages. Heh, I'm still making those posts, so RECOGNIZE MY CELEB STATUS or have me shoot you with the amazing tranquilizer of GOD-KING-LDB! L "Fred Sanford is coming to see ya" DB -- http://www.lucidx.com/is My egotistical webpage, links to all the webpages I don't keep in my sig. -- http://www.mp3.com/idolv Download some of my music. -- http://members.xoom.com/MaxxIda/ The Official Sam Kieth Webpage - The Maxx IDA -- Contemporary Cartoon Militia is (C) & TM 1998 S. Steven Struble and Kris W. M. Struble. | The Li'l Depressed Boy, Phreeck, Spyder Hunt, and all related characters (C) & TM 1998 S. Steven Struble ------------------------------ Message-ID: Date: Sun, 7 Mar 1999 15:03:02 -0500 (EST) From: Lawrence P Solomon Subject: Re: TMBG: Tape trading Excerpts from tmbg: 15-Feb-99 Re: TMBG: Tape trading by Renquist L Hedgeloff@jun > look, you fuck. i know it's probably none of my business, but i can't > resist--if you're so fucking self righteous that you feel the need to > flame in response to someone who refuses to change his tried and arguably > moral (and certainly legal!) practices, then you are the one who needs to > fuck off. i don't care. flame me personally, flame to the list. hate > me. it doesn't matter. but don't be so damned self-righteous--GETTING > ONE FUCKING FREE TAPE FOR A FAVOR IS NOT TOO DAMNED BAD. IT'S NOT LEGAL!!! IT is illegal to make a profit from tape trading. Plain and simple. No self-righteous about it. I have the law on my side. GETING ONE FUCKING FREE TAPE FOR SOMETHING YOU CHOOSE TO DO IS ONE FREE TAPE TOO MANY! Lawrence Solomon http://www.contrib.andrew.cmu.edu/~lps/ lps@andrew.cmu.edu "Just because you're floating doesn't mean * This space inadvertently you haven't drowned." -They Might Be Giants * left with stuff in it. ------------------------------ From: PULPSTRESS@aol.com Message-ID: Date: Sun, 7 Mar 1999 15:16:24 EST Subject: Re: TMBG: regular or newbie? In a message dated 99-03-07 13:28:42 EST, bobscott@tmbg.org writes: << Make that Nubular Tubular, and it's almost an MST3K reference, though I can't for the life of me know why... >> Tubular Boobular would be the exact MST reference. I can't remember which movie, but it was one of the Joel hosted ones. Now *those* were the days! jennifer ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 15 Feb 1999 02:44:45 -0500 Subject: Re: TMBG: Tape trading Message-ID: <19990215.024448.2694.2.Phone_Book@juno.com> From: Renquist L Hedgeloff >GETING ONE FUCKING FREE TAPE FOR SOMETHING YOU CHOOSE TO DO IS ONE >FREE TAPE TOO MANY! look. i'm in a really fucking bad mood, so writing this'll probably come back and bite me in the ass ... disclaimer or no. but i must say that you are being very self-righteous about the whole matter, flaming and insulting where such things are not necessary--morality is individual, especially on such small, pointless, and vague things... like receiving a favor for a favor. taking such a high and mighty attitude for choosing to do a favor free of charge is unecessary, and certainly does make you look very anal (not that you mind, i'm sure). yes, now that i think about it, it certainly would be illegal to make a true profit from tape trading .. but i'd hardly call that one tape a true, prosecutable transaction. unless you're in singapore. from what i used to think, bootlegs themselves were illegal and i was against the practice. i was probably wrong; it doesn't matter. it's all so fucking pointless. we don't end up with any animosity ... not that i'm extending the olive branch. i digress. expecting a favor for a favor, even one that is arguably uneven, is not wrong, and such an attitude as you have does little for anyone's image of you, mr. solomon. jay. i hate preparing eulogies. ___________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] ------------------------------ Message-ID: Date: Sun, 7 Mar 1999 15:58:29 -0500 (EST) From: Lawrence P Solomon Subject: Re: TMBG: Tape trading Excerpts from internet.music.tmbg: 15-Feb-99 Re: TMBG: Tape trading by Renquist L Hedgeloff@jun > look. i'm in a really fucking bad mood, so writing this'll probably come > back and bite me in the ass ... disclaimer or no. but i must say that > you are being very self-righteous about the whole matter, flaming and > insulting where such things are not necessary--morality is individual, > especially on such small, pointless, and vague things... like receiving a > favor for a favor. taking such a high and mighty attitude for choosing > to do a favor free of charge is unecessary, and certainly does make you > look very anal (not that you mind, i'm sure). you just don't get it, do you? It's not a matter of morality. It's a matter of legality. How many times do I need to spell it out? > yes, now that i think about it, it certainly would be illegal to make a > true profit from tape trading .. but i'd hardly call that one tape a > true, prosecutable transaction. unless you're in singapore. That one tape, that one time, maybe not. But it adds up. Look back a few posts. A tape costs about $1.50, right? It takes about a minute of my time to open a new tape, put it in the machine, hit a few buttons, and flip it halfway through. That means I'm effectively charging $1.50 per minute, or, to put it in more useful terms, $90/hour to make a copy of someone else's work for someone. $90/hour?!? Most people don't make that much at their jobs. And this is a hobby. No one is a professional bootleg trader, nor can they be. Trading bootlegs takes nothing away from the band. Selling them does - if they're good enough for us to sell, why isn't TMBG selling them? And really, getting paid $90/hour for copying tapes is selling them. > from what i used to think, bootlegs themselves were illegal and i was > against the practice. i was probably wrong; it doesn't matter. it's all > so fucking pointless. we don't end up with any animosity ... not that > i'm extending the olive branch. It really depends on the band. The general rules are something like this: Most clubs don't allow taping. That's because they never can be sure what bands will or won't allow it, so they just put up a rule against it entirely. This is not a legally binding thing, though. The most they can do if they catch you taping is kick you out of the club (after all, you violated their rules) and maybe confiscate your tape. If the band catches you and has a problem with it, they or their record company can prosecute you, because in that case, they have decided that you are committing a copyright violation and should be prosecuted for it. However, John and John have specifically said that it's OK to tape their shows. Yes, it was a little grudgingly, but they figured they'd be hypocrites not to, given that they used fan recordings on Severe Tire Damage. Given that, the only thing that can stop you from taping a show is a club. If the club doesn't catch you, then once you leave, there's nothing they can do about it - again, they have no legal recourse because the band said it's OK. The law is basically that it's up to the band, but that selling someone else's work, whatever it is, is not legal. You can't charge people to come to your house to watch a movie; you can't rent out your copy of some CD so a friend can listen to it. You can't dub a CD onto a tape and sell it to someone. But you can say "Provide me with a blank tape, and I'll make you a copy of this CD," or "Come on over - I rented . Let's watch it." It's even OK to say, "Well, the rental cost me $3, so I'll put in $1.50 and you can put in $1.50." You're just paying for the rental. But when someone sends you a blank tape and you return it to them with a recording on it, you have lost *nothing*. You have no costs to split. If they ask for a tape, but want to send you nothing at all, it's OK to say "Can you cover my costs? I need to buy a blank tape and pay $1.01 to send it to you. That's a total of $2.51. You can keep the penny." > i digress. expecting a favor for a favor, even one that is arguably > uneven, is not wrong, and such an attitude as you have does little for > anyone's image of you, mr. solomon. Again. You are wrong. The favor you expect is that the other person goes out and buys the tape to send you, and that the only work you have to do is flipping a tape and dropping an envelope in the mailbox. If that's so much work for you, then maybe you should consider a different hobby. Like sleeping. Lawrence Solomon http://www.contrib.andrew.cmu.edu/~lps/ lps@andrew.cmu.edu "Just because you're floating doesn't mean * This space inadvertently you haven't drowned." -They Might Be Giants * left with stuff in it. ------------------------------ From: GhostKrabb@webtv.net (Dexter Flansburgh) Date: Sun, 7 Mar 1999 13:11:28 -0800 (PST) Subject: Re: TMBG: regular or newbie? Message-ID: <2992-36E2EB80-188@mailtod-242.iap.bryant.webtv.net> LDB wrote: I'm sorry Bob, you only have ill gotten fame. You are just leaching off your celeb status from Mr. Man, Mike "The A Stands for Walter" Leffel. You are like anybody who knows anyone special, you are just a poor little leach. In my continous efforts to become a celebrity by starting a large thread, I will attempt to do so here. There's something that has caught my interest lately that is alot like Bob's fame pertaining to Mike Leffel. It's the story of one of the most talented musicians who has unfortunately passed on, and his b*tch ex-girlfriend who everyone loves and is famous from feeding off of this musicians career. I know we all respect music here, so you might be familiar with the 2 I am speaking of. They are Kevin Gilbert & Sheryl Crowe. I'm sure that somebody out there knows what I'm talking about, right? You can find out this tale of heartbreak an deciet (an why I despise of Sheryl Crowe so much) here: www.thedebster.com/gilbert/secrets.html or at: www.metroactive.com/papers/metro/08.01.96/gilbert-orbit-9631.html You should check it out, cause it's very interesting. And you should also carry on this thread, so that I can be a celebrity. I don't care if it turns into "Non-tmbg: Crows are cool birds" as long as it continues. still trying to find his place in the sun, Dexburger ------------------------------ From: linnel@snet.net Message-Id: <199903072224.RAA25066@pop.snet.net> Date: Sun, 7 Mar 1999 17:23:46 -0500 Subject: Re: TMBG: regular or newbie? [Unknown MIME type or encoding (text/enriched), contents not processed] ------------------------------ From: ErgoTM@aol.com Message-ID: <4bf63c5b.36e311a1@aol.com> Date: Sun, 7 Mar 1999 18:54:09 EST Subject: Re: NON-TMBG: Us Newbies "fitting in"'m a regular" << "when does a newbie become a regular?" I too would like to know this. >> >> Date: Sun, 7 Mar 1999 21:09:28 -0500 (EST) From: Lawrence P Solomon Subject: Re: TMBG: Tape trading I know you said to respond privately, but I feel this is a misconception that must be cleared up. sorry. Excerpts from tmbg: 7-Mar-99 Re: TMBG: Tape trading by wagner@mindspring.com > i thought you said that a tape costs $2. anyway... > what kind of equipment do you use? i'm just wondering, b/c it must be very > hi-tech equipment if it only takes you "about a minute to open a tape, > blahblah, and flip it halfway through." with the equipment i've got (which > is pretty standard), it takes me 60 minutes to copy a 60-minute tape, i use > normal speed dubbing to keep the quality of the tape. you say it yourself > on your webpage: "I don't use high speed dubbing...when taping." so what my > question is how are you able to copy one tape (of any length, obviously, by > what you say) in one minute (i'm also backing this up with what you said > earlier -- "i can dub 10 tapes for someone and it'll take up about 10 > minutes of my time.")? your arguement doesn't hold water. you can't record > a tape in one minute without using highspeed dubbing, and still it takes > about half the time of the length of the tape (ie 60-min tape takes about > 30 min) to copy it. All *I* have to do is put the tape in and hit "dub." While it's taping, I do something else. Sometimes, I even do it in the same room, so I can enjoy listening to the tape at the same time. Yes, it takes 1 minute per minute of tape, but that's not my time or my work. And if you do consider it 1 minute of your work per minute of tape, perhaps you should reconsider your hobby. (that's really time intensive, even if you're doing an actual trade!) > also, if you're gonna reply to this, please do it privately. i think this > arguing (that you've replied to on the list) has pissed off enough people > with a lot of unnecessary stuff. yeah, i know that i pretty much started > this mess (by replying to your post that said "2:1 traders are evil"), so i > guess you could say that *i've* pissed off enough people, but i don't > really care. it doesn't really matter to me that i helped ignite an on-line > flaming war; it adds something interesting to this list. yeah, it's something interesting, which is why I'm responding publicly... I'm not going to flame you, because really, you haven't said anything that's pissed me off. (as far as I remember, you only asked the question innocently... I still don't know where you actually stand) > please shut up. you're not being self-righteous but you are making an ass > out of yourself as well as antagonizing a lot of people. bah. who am I antagonizing? the 2:1 traders. I don't give a rat's ass about how they feel about me. it's mutual. Lawrence Solomon http://www.contrib.andrew.cmu.edu/~lps/ lps@andrew.cmu.edu "Just because you're floating doesn't mean * This space inadvertently you haven't drowned." -They Might Be Giants * left with stuff in it. ------------------------------ Message-ID: <36E32C26.714C6442@pacificnet.net> Date: Sun, 07 Mar 1999 18:47:24 -0700 From: Bongo Subject: TMBG: OFF TOPIC: I'm (not) the Biggest One bill tatalovich wrote: > I mean, even the biggest > proponent of on-topic posts from an argument a few months ago (I think it > was Bongo...right?) is still around. > Believe it or not I'm not the biggest proponent of on topic posts. Leo Bicknell posts on the importance of being on topic every week. He precedes it with the words, "IMPORTANT! IMPORTANT! IMPORTANT!" > C'mon people (okay, Nate, Leon, and a few others)...if you're getting > bored of non-TMBG discussions, then go elsewhere. > I'll assume that's a joke. Also, I hope I don't I don't hear from yet another one of you saying that I'm a hypocrite because this too is an off topic post. Yes, it is off topic but I don't consider it *my* post. Its YOUR post. It was generated as the direct result of off topic posts. Every time anyone posts off topic, they need to consider that they are potentially making TWO off topic posts: their own AND a complaint post. For those who haven't been following my crusade, I always stress that I don't mind occasional off topic stuff. Its just when it floods the list like it often does. Please be courteous and remember that not all of us have as much free time as the rest of you. -B O N G O [Attachment omitted, unknown MIME type or encoding (text/html)] ------------------------------ From: PULPSTRESS@aol.com Message-ID: Date: Sun, 7 Mar 1999 21:42:36 EST Subject: Re: TMBG: OFF TOPIC: I'm (not) the Biggest One In a message dated 99-03-07 21:33:11 EST, ggr@pacificnet.net writes: << For those who haven't been following my crusade, I always stress that I don't mind occasional off topic stuff. Its just when it floods the list like it often does. Please be courteous and remember that not all of us have as much free time as the rest of you. >> 75% of what comes through on this list I have no interest in whatsoever. Know what I do about it? I delete it. It's not that difficult a task. And if I were on digest, I"d just scroll past anything that didn't look like it was going to interest me. It's really no big deal. I've seen lists totally fall apart because a faction decided that off-topic posts shouldn't be made at all...it cause a lot of infighting and strife on that list, that a large portion of the subscribers just up and left. I did it myself for a few months - it made me sad that something that was once so much fun was being torn apart by the very people who were the core of the list. I'd hate that to happen here. jennifer ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 15 Feb 1999 10:04:51 -0500 Subject: Re: TMBG: Tape trading Message-ID: <19990215.100453.2694.5.Phone_Book@juno.com> From: Renquist L Hedgeloff i apologize to everyone for my earlier flame to mr. solomon; i had meant it for his own eyes only, not that such an outburst is truly excusable in any forum or venue. though i am no list legend with the ability to be a hoochie and invariably get away with it (with all due respect, jordan ;), i hope that forgiveness will be imparted without much difficulty. i shall have to closely regard my "reply" key from here onward ... or else.. be a lurker! hooray for lurkers! many thanks, peace, love, and good happiness stuff, jay, clogging the list with yet more irrelevent stuff that nobody's gonna read ___________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 7 Mar 1999 22:14:55 -0600 (CST) From: bill tatalovich Subject: Re: non-TMBG: tape trading Message-ID: Hey all-- On Sun, 7 Mar 1999, Lawrence P Solomon wrote: >> please shut up. you're not being self-righteous but you are making an >> ass out of yourself as well as antagonizing a lot of people. > > bah. who am I antagonizing? the 2:1 traders. I don't give a rat's ass > about how they feel about me. it's mutual. I don't know about the 2:1 traders, but I have a feeling that Lawrence is antagonizing those folks who are sick and tired of this thread. Fine...some people hate 2:1 trades with a passion, some others feel they deserve that blank tape. Opinions will not be swayed, so let's just drop it, eh? The Rev |~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~|~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~| | Reverend Bill Tatalovich | Home page: | | | http://students.cec.wustl.edu/~wt3/ | | wt3@cec.wustl.edu |~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ | personnel@kwur.wustl.edu | | emogeek@hotmail.com | ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 7 Mar 1999 13:13:43 -0800 Subject: Re: NON-TMBG: a matter of respect Message-ID: <19990307.201449.-433829.0.jnielsen69@juno.com> From: Josh Nielsen Lemon curry? Josh "Monty Python rules my life" Nielsen jnielsen69@juno.com http://www.angelfire.com/or/jnielsen/ http://www.geocities.com/SunsetStrip/Studio/4091 ICQ #1337243 ___________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 7 Mar 1999 22:17:05 -0600 (CST) From: bill tatalovich Subject: Re: non-TMBG: off-topic wonderment Message-ID: Hey all-- Well, it was inevitable. The Reverend comes to the defense, yet again, of the off-topic post. And who better to respond to than Bongo, who I have a funny feeling is getting tired of me. On Sun, 7 Mar 1999, Bongo wrote: >> C'mon people (okay, Nate, Leon, and a few others)...if you're getting >> bored of non-TMBG discussions, then go elsewhere. >> > I'll assume that's a joke. You know...having written that, I'm not sure anymore. First off, if you notice the original post I made, it contained this above it, courtesy of Leon: > Come on people, if you're getting bored of TMBG discussions, then go > elsewhere. And if you look, my response was structured in the same way. So I suppose it was a joke. But the fact--a fact that permeates this list, whether we like it or not--remains that off-topic posts will be on this list from time to time, especially when (like now) there's no new TMBG news other than ONE show that apparently one lister attended. It's just the nature of this list and the people who populate it that they (we...you...I...whatever) post off-topic subjects. It's not the intended nature of the list, of course, but that's what it's like, for better or worse. I know that I didn't join this list to read posts about Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy or things like that, but I put up with it. I delete, therefore I am. And let me pre-empt some arguments here...you have to pay for your internet connection by the minute, and you don't want to have to wade through all those messages and rack up larger bills. Well shit...I pity you. All I can really suggest is that you get a free web-based e-mail account somewhere and check your e-mail at a library or some such place where you can have web access for free. Either that, or get your TMBG info from tmbg.com, tmbg.net, tmbg.org, or some such place. We're not innovative people here who get information (at least much) earlier than the general public, after all. Another argument....Leo (well, the Majordomo, who I suppose could be personified as Leo) posts the Administrivia twice a month pleading against off-topic posts, and we should all listen. Well, that's true. But as I mentioned earlier...in my three and a half years on this list (give or take a month or two), I've never known it to be all on-topic. Okay, there was the two week period or so where Leo actually filtered the messages coming onto the list...but he gave that up, because it was a time-consuming job, and the list wasn't that bad at that point. The fact remains that the list will remain off-topic at times for as long as it exists...and that may really suck for some, but that's the way it is. That's not SUPPOSED to be the way it is, you say? Well, I could go into a big discussion about theory vs. reality, but I'll just say that we didn't all get that pony we were supposed to get when we were five, now did we? This list should be filtered, you say (okay, "filtered" is the wrong word...the correct one escapes me right now)? Okay....you do it. E-mail Leo and set up some way of doing it. I said this same thing about six months ago (when the last wave of off-topicness hit), and no one actually did it. One person (I forget who...I apologize) volunteered, but nothing came of it. If this list is completely on-topic, that would be great. I mean, I have deleted more pointless messages in the past week or so than I have in a long, long time. TMBG discussion is almost always more interesting than the non-TMBG discussion anyway. Call me a futilist (I think I just made up that word), but it hasn't happened in the past, and I doubt it will happen in the future. Anyway, there are more arguments that I should pre-empt, but let's move back to more of Bongo's post: > Also, I hope I don't I don't hear from yet another one of you saying > that I'm a hypocrite because this too is an off topic post. Yes, it is > off topic but I don't consider it *my* post. Its YOUR post. It was > generated as the direct result of off topic posts. > Every time anyone posts off topic, they need to consider that they are > potentially making TWO off topic posts: their own AND a complaint post. > For those who haven't been following my crusade, I always stress that I > don't mind occasional off topic stuff. Its just when it floods the list > like it often does. Please be courteous and remember that not all of us > have as much free time as the rest of you. [quick note: I am really being serious here...no sarcasm] Wow...that's actually a good point. I'm serious (no really! I AM serious...). It does make sense, what Bongo says above about the off-topic off-topic posts are off-topic merely because the original off-topic post was off-topic (wow). The only unfortunate result of this is: Your off-topicness cause my off-topicness as well. And I apologize, really I do. You may now delete, if you managed to get this far. The Rev np: Bauhaus--"Bela Lugosi's Dead" |~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~|~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~| | Reverend Bill Tatalovich | Home page: | | | http://students.cec.wustl.edu/~wt3/ | | wt3@cec.wustl.edu |~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ | personnel@kwur.wustl.edu | | emogeek@hotmail.com | ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 07 Mar 1999 22:26:33 -0600 From: Bob Scott Message-ID: <36E35178.A91ACBB6@tmbg.org> Organization: They Might Be Giants, Unofficially http://www.tmbg.org Subject: Re: TMBG: regular or newbie? LimeZinger@aol.com wrote: > In a message dated 3/7/99 2:38:33 PM, LDB@tmbg.org writes: > > >>Now, I'm being called a celebrity? Just after the death of Stanley Kubrick > > > >>(one of my personal heroes), this truly makes my day. > > > >> > > > >I'm sorry Bob, you only have ill gotten fame. You are just leaching off > > > >your celeb status from Mr. Man, Mike "The A Stands for Walter" Leffel. > > You > > > >are like anybody who knows anyone special, you are just a poor little leach. > > > > hey! he's a new celebrity, but a celebrity nonetheless. or to throw in a kids > in the hall reference: "a small c celebrity"? :) or, can list celebrities like > myself nominate people in as celebrities? because i nominate mr. bob scott > then. because... he's... keen, and he's as good as orange flavoured cough > medicine, yeah! > > woo! I'm getting that warm tingly feeling all over again... :P Call the ambulance!!! bobscott@tmbg.org AKA Bob "Thank you for your patronizing... :)" Scott ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 07 Mar 1999 22:47:30 -0600 From: Bob Scott Message-ID: <36E35662.BF096D89@tmbg.org> Organization: They Might Be Giants, Unofficially http://www.tmbg.org Subject: TMBG: Re: OFF TOPIC: I'm (not) the Biggest One Let's just assume that posting "I hate off topic posts" every 2 weeks is gonna accomplish something for like 1 millisecond. Okay, there's an ideal world for everyone who doesn't care about the interests of others interested in TMBG. This world is not gonna be like that. It's been demonstrated every time the thread starts, and somehow, by will of Bog, ends. The list exists as it is. It's not gonna change in a day, and badgering people who post here with things that you don't feel are on topic will only make hostilities arise. Sure, there are off topic posts. But as long as the list doesn't become some embodiment of Hitler which denounces free speech on the internet (because we all know how much Hitler was against free speech on the net), off-topic posts do have a place on this list. And people on both sides telling people on the other sides to go to hell is just plain silly. bobscott@tmbg.org AKA Bob "What'll it be, eh?" Scott ------------------------------ Message-ID: <002301be6930$343b49c0$5a228a81@rcn.nmt.edu> From: "Refund" Subject: NON-TMBG: On/Off topic posts... Date: Sun, 7 Mar 1999 23:52:15 -0700 I have an astounding idea. How about someone makes a mailing list specifically for this TMBG on/off topic post debate, because I'M SICK OF F***ING HEARING IT! Good lord! Every two months or so, this happens. And every time, it ends the same way...with absoultely no one winning. And no, Bongo, it isn't /our/ post.. You can't write it off /that/ easily. You did post an off topic post by replying to the argument, and all you're doing is fueling it more...just as I am right now. There. Rant over. Sorry if anyone's mad at me now. :0) Signed, Nick Wolf, TMBG Ambassador to the State of New Mexico My Shoutcast channel is at 129.138.34.90:7050. No guarantee it'll be up all the time, but at least it's a start, no? Oh yeah. Visit www.geocities.com/SunsetStrip/Amphitheatre/5550 The first Julie Plug tribute page in history!!! [Attachment omitted, unknown MIME type or encoding (text/html)] ------------------------------ End of tmbg-list Digest #16-8 *****************************