Errors-To: owner-tmbg-digest@tmbg.org Reply-To: tmbg-digest@tmbg.org Sender: owner-tmbg-digest@tmbg.org Precedence: bulk From: owner-tmbg-digest@tmbg.org To: tmbg-digest@tmbg.org Subject: tmbg-list Digest #26-18 tmbg-list Digest, Volume 26, Number 18 Friday, 18 February 2000 Today's Topics: TMBG: Re: what's YOUR definition of poetic? Re: TMBG: Re: what's YOUR definition of poetic? Re: TMBG: poetic songs TMBG: MY definition of poetic Re: TMBG: Re: what's YOUR definition of poetic? Re: TMBG: Re: what's YOUR definition of poetic? TMBG: TMBG Poetic TMBG: Brave new World Administrivia: If you wish to unsubscribe from this mailing send mail to tmbg-digest-request@tmbg.org for instructions on how to be automatically removed. --------------------------------------------------------------------- The views expressed herein are those of the individual authors. --------------------------------------------------------------------- tmbg-list is digested with Digest 3.5b (John Relph ). ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 17 Feb 2000 02:55:37 -0500 From: "Jose" Message-ID: <88g9bk$irm$1@ussenterprise.ufp.org> Organization: They Might Be Giants, Unofficially http://www.tmbg.org Subject: TMBG: Re: what's YOUR definition of poetic? Christina, If anything, people have been complaining that this group was "too quiet". I don't see how any on-topic thread in such a group could be called "inane." Secondly, one's definition of poetic is highly subjective. Generally, poetry is figurative and creative writing used to present imagery. More generally, however, is the common definition of that which "speaks to you", that is, holds a subjective meaning beyond that of the tangible. I don't really see how your flame adds to the general discussion, and specifically why you felt the need to write it. I humorously (thought I) suggested "I Should Be Allowed to Think" do to its reference to Ginsberg's "Howl". The other songs I suggested were serious ones, however, because I feel they send some interesting messages. The entire point of a newsgroup such as this one is the exchange of ideas about TMBG songs. I feel this post was an excellent opportunity for such, but was cut off by your flaming. To be honest with you, I couldn't care less rather you stay or leave this list. I'm guessing you probably like to "let people know that when they think they are being smart or saying something worthwhile they really aren[']t" because you are an angry person who feels she appears intelligent when blindly offering up her negative feedback to all who will (in this case, have to) listen. On a side note, my personal definition of poetry extends past literature and music. I like to consider an amazing endgame in chess or an insightful mathematical proof to be a form of poetry. Beauty exists in the universe regardless of Christina's mood or opinion. Sorry to stretch this so long, Jose Christina Rockwell wrote in message news:001501bf78dc$d01f1760$eaa50acf@marymt.edu... > It seems to me that this is one especially inane thread on this list. > While, I am not usually one to flame i have to step in here. The songs you > are metioning are not especially poetic, its more like "lets name my > favorite song by my favorite band so i can play them in class". Who the > hell said Meet James Ensor was poetic? Don't tell me that If i don't like > it i can leave. That's not the point. I like to let people know that when > they think they are being smart or saying something worthwhile they really > arent. Because after all I wouldn't want the poor person to fail through > your suggestions. > > > ------------------------------ Message-ID: <006301bf794a$6e1d0680$eaa50acf@marymt.edu> From: "Christina Rockwell" Subject: Re: TMBG: Re: what's YOUR definition of poetic? Date: Thu, 17 Feb 2000 08:25:12 -0500 Organization: Marymount College regardless of this fact...grading is NOT subjective its objective. And I said this so someone else John Linnell =/= Bob Dylan. Where Bob Dyaln is considered by some to be the greatest american poet. and i still dont see james ensor as poetic. thats a history lesson birdh0use > Christina, > > If anything, people have been complaining that this group was "too quiet". > I don't see how any on-topic thread in such a group could be called "inane." > Secondly, one's definition of poetic is highly subjective. ------------------------------ From: GhostKrabb@webtv.net (Dexter Flansburgh) Date: Thu, 17 Feb 2000 06:53:12 -0800 (PST) Subject: Re: TMBG: poetic songs Message-ID: <8791-38AC0B58-808@storefull-248.iap.bryant.webtv.net> I'd probably go with "You'll Miss Me." It's a good song, has got a cool rythym, and it rhymes (I know that's not something that has to be in poetry, but it is good to have). Also, on the original version of the song (which can be found on the demo tapes), Flansy sang it kind of as if he was reciting a poem. That's probably why I thought of that one. Please let us know what you end up choosing! Love? What do you know of love?!, Dexter M. Flansburgh ------------------------------ Date: 17 Feb 2000 15:13:15 -0000 Message-ID: <20000217151315.30936.qmail@whitfield.chek.com> From: "Shaun Peck" Subject: TMBG: MY definition of poetic In response to yesterday's flamer: >The songs you are metioning are not especially poetic, its more like "lets name my favorite song by my favorite band so i can play them in class".... I like to let people know that when they think they are being smart or saying something worthwhile they really arent. Because after all I wouldn't want the poor person to fail through your suggestions. First of all, I think you are guilty of what you accused everyone else of doing, thinkning they are smart when they are not. Here's why. Poetry is a form of communication in which ideas are expressed in an unusual manner. Instead of just saying "death" you say "the undiscovered country." It provokes thought and imagination in the reader and makes you look at things in a new light. True, I think when asked to find a "poetic song" a person's first inclination is to pick "their favorite song," but let's not say that because of this, none of the suggested songs were poetic. Take the Pencil Rain. Beautiful and clever song. The metaphor refering to bullets as "the pencil rain" is very thought provoking, suggesting that in war, the bullets fall down on you like the rain, and just like raindrops, are difficult to escape. Also, the morse code in the middle is ingenious. The words spelled out are from a Spanish song most of us would be familiar with, "Cielito Lindo", meaning "Pretty Little Sky" and include the phrase, "Oh, sing and don't cry" in Spanish. The morse code is suggesting to the sky, or source of rain (the sky's tears), or in other words, those that fire the bullets or "pencil rain," to stop crying/raining/shooting. The message is one of peace, ironically, using a method of communication once popular in the millitary, which brings up images of our "peace keepers:" policemen, soldiers, etc, who all carry lethal weapons. There is much symbolism and poetry in this one song and there is poetry in many other TMBG songs. So, before you flame the list and put down everyone for trying to enjoy the moment, think first before you put your foot in your mouth. Signup for your FREE Houston Astros Fan E-Mail account at http://www.astrosfan.net! ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 17 Feb 2000 11:12:42 -0500 From: "Jose" Message-ID: <88h6fp$tbo$1@ussenterprise.ufp.org> Organization: They Might Be Giants, Unofficially http://www.tmbg.org Subject: Re: TMBG: Re: what's YOUR definition of poetic? Christina, I'm not sure how many English/Literature classes you've taken, but how can you say that grading is objective? Do you believe that his teacher/professor can simply "turn off" personal biases when grading? ALL grading is subjective to some level, Literature and Philosophy especially so. In many classes such as these, professors will often stress one's own thinking and interpretations rather than simply following the herd. Bob Dylan sings some beautiful songs, some of which I would consider to be poetic. But what does that have to do with this? Because Bob Dylan's songs are poetic, They Might Be Giants aren't? That doesn't follow at all. Even if Bob Dylan IS America's greatest poet (which literature majors the world over are shaking their heads at right now) that STILL doesn't mean that TMBG isn't poetic in their songs also. The fact that the poster's instructor gave them such a wonderful and open assignment leads me to believe that they will be more interested in student response than in some universal "poetic" established by Christina and a society of followers. Regards, Jose P.S. --> "Certain People I Could Name" speaks more to me than any poetry I have ever read. Judging by the number of classics I have pushed through and the volumes of anthology I have read, it holds up in my mind against the greatest poets of the past and present. Christina Rockwell wrote in message news:006301bf794a$6e1d0680$eaa50acf@marymt.edu... > regardless of this fact...grading is NOT subjective its objective. And I > said this so someone else John Linnell =/= Bob Dylan. Where Bob Dyaln is > considered by some to be the greatest american poet. and i still dont see > james ensor as poetic. thats a history lesson > birdh0use > > > Christina, > > > > If anything, people have been complaining that this group was "too > quiet". > > I don't see how any on-topic thread in such a group could be called > "inane." > > Secondly, one's definition of poetic is highly subjective. > ------------------------------ Message-ID: <001d01bf7977$dc65ee40$9700a8c0@icka.net> From: "The Bastard Snowman" Subject: Re: TMBG: Re: what's YOUR definition of poetic? Date: Thu, 17 Feb 2000 11:50:27 -0700 I've been quiet for a long time, mostly 'cause I've been having trouble with my email account...but that's not the point! Heh.. Anyway, this thread came up, and I wished to give my two cents. I'm an Engineering Student, and what I consider to be a mediocre poet - some of my poetry can be found on my webpage, if you'd like to judge me for yourself. If you do like what I've written, incidentally, I have another poem I just haven't put up yet... But I digress. I was reading this thread, and about to post my opinions on which TMBG songs I found to be the most poetic, when I saw Christina's response. I have this to say: why is it so important for you to tell someone they're wrong? It is my firm belief that poetry is something that speaks to each individual differently. One of my best friends loves beat poetry, for instance, and I can't stand it myself..but that doesn't make it any less poetic. It doesn't speak to /me/, but it does to him. Just because you don't find something as poetic as - say - Bob Dylan (who wasn't HALF the poet E.A. Poe was, in my humble opinion), doesn't mean it isn't poetic to someone else. There.. Now for my /other/ two cents... Poetic songs: I Should Be Allowed to Think The Statue Got Me High Dinner Bell Whistling in the Dark Space Suit (Yes, I know it doesn't have words...) I Palindrome I Which Describes How You're Feeling And many many more! Signed, Nick Wolf, TMBG Ambassador to the State of New Mexico And then there was my web page... www.geocities.com/Paris/Shoppe/3169/ ----- Original Message ----- From: "Christina Rockwell" To: Sent: Thursday, February 17, 2000 6:25 AM Subject: Re: TMBG: Re: what's YOUR definition of poetic? > regardless of this fact...grading is NOT subjective its objective. And I > said this so someone else John Linnell =/= Bob Dylan. Where Bob Dyaln is > considered by some to be the greatest american poet. and i still dont see > james ensor as poetic. thats a history lesson > birdh0use > > > Christina, > > > > If anything, people have been complaining that this group was "too > quiet". > > I don't see how any on-topic thread in such a group could be called > "inane." > > Secondly, one's definition of poetic is highly subjective. > ------------------------------ From: Josh2Face@aol.com Message-ID: <61.189125b.25ddb34c@aol.com> Date: Thu, 17 Feb 2000 15:25:48 EST Subject: TMBG: TMBG Poetic I thought I might as well add my 2 cents seeing that everybody else has (so we have about 16 cents now I think), poetry is hard to define. There is no standard to follow for poetry. In my opinion, its hard to call TMBG poetry because in many cases, there are no clear "meanings" to the song. If you can argue that a TMBG song actually has a meaning, and that you didn't just steal it off of tmbg.org, well, then I think you can argue its poetry but for me, TMBG lyrics are too hard to explain to be anything more than just the best songs on earth...and well, thats damn good enough. On a personal note, next time you have an assignment like this..try the deeper meaning of Poison's "Talk Dirty To Me", you'd be surprised that in actuality the song is about a little russian boy who comes to America seeking fortune and fame but learns in school that his parents are Comi-bastards. The teasing and such continue in some hijinks that can only be described as "zany", until he grows up and becomes the capitalist pig he knew he could be all along. Wow. Who thought CeCe Deville could write something so beautiful?? Josh Goldberg Gabba Gabba Hey! ------------------------------ From: DrSaxx@aol.com Message-ID: <5b.226244e.25ddf682@aol.com> Date: Thu, 17 Feb 2000 20:12:34 EST Subject: TMBG: Brave new World I just got my info club thingy yesterday...and it said all the Brave new world performances were at tmbg.com...might I ask where? I can't find it even though it's probably rigt in front of me Harlan ------------------------------ End of tmbg-list Digest #26-18 ******************************