Errors-To: owner-tmbg-digest@tmbg.org Reply-To: tmbg-digest@tmbg.org Sender: owner-tmbg-digest@tmbg.org Precedence: bulk From: owner-tmbg-digest@tmbg.org To: tmbg-digest@tmbg.org Subject: tmbg-list Digest #26-20 tmbg-list Digest, Volume 26, Number 20 Sunday, 20 February 2000 Today's Topics: TMBG: TMBG on NPR again... TMBG: NON-TMBG -- Moxy Fruvous, The Cure, Jonathan Richman TMBG: Re: NON-TMBG -- Moxy Fruvous, The Cure, Jonathan Richman Re: TMBG: Re: NON-TMBG -- Moxy Fruvous, The Cure, Jonathan TMBG: Re: All alone, all alone, all by myself Re: TMBG: Newsletter and DAS (formally Brave New World) TMBG: okaaaaaay... Re: TMBG: poetic songs TMBG: Alright people... Re: TMBG: Alright people... Re: TMBG: Alright people... Re: TMBG: Newsletter and DAS (formally Brave New World) TMBG: Montana Re: TMBG: Alright people... TMBG: Dr. Worm and Broom videos Re: TMBG: Alright people... Re: TMBG: Alright people...still TMBG: Re: Alright people... Re: TMBG: Re: Alright people... Re: TMBG: Alright people... Administrivia: If you wish to unsubscribe from this mailing send mail to tmbg-digest-request@tmbg.org for instructions on how to be automatically removed. --------------------------------------------------------------------- The views expressed herein are those of the individual authors. --------------------------------------------------------------------- tmbg-list is digested with Digest 3.5b (John Relph ). ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Message-ID: <20000219132845.10540.qmail@hotmail.com> From: "jEsSiCa Schleiger" Subject: TMBG: TMBG on NPR again... Date: Sat, 19 Feb 2000 06:28:45 MST A quick FYI from NPR land- TMBG's music will once again be featured on NPR's This American Life. This week's show is a live NYC performance featuring many cool artists, including our favorite Johns...and the music bed for the promo is "Jessica," a cover I am particularly partial to... :)! jessica ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ From: Josh2Face@aol.com Message-ID: Date: Sat, 19 Feb 2000 09:07:57 EST Subject: TMBG: NON-TMBG -- Moxy Fruvous, The Cure, Jonathan Richman Hey, I just thought I'd check up and just give a few thoughts. I just picked up the brand new Cure album, "Bloodflowers", and I must say...I haven't heard anything this good in a LONG time. I mean, at this point, most of the bands I like have their better work behind them. For example, Jonathan Richman's "I'm So Confused" was a great album, but its not like anything from the Beserkley years. Also, the latest Rentals album was kinda disappointing, eventhough the first album was really strong. The live TMBG album was just a dumb idea to begin with (how do you put a confetti cannon and a congo line on CD?), and even some of the punk bands I like have lost their touch to me. How many bands can steal NOFX guitar tabs off websites and claim them as their own? Unfortunately..alot. Anyway, this new Cure album isn't like that really. Its just good old fashioned Cure, and I think its a MUST BUY. If you've never heard the Cure before, this would be a great way to start, I guess, unless you wanna go back and try to find the older stuff. I personally have trouble finding anything under 1994 in my Cleveland wasteland CD stores. Also, I just picked up my first Moxy Fruvous album, "You Will Go To The Moon", and I like it a whole lot. I've only been able to listen to like the first 4-5 songs, though, and I like it alot. Any suggestions for other Fruvous albums?? They came to Cleveland a few months ago and I didn't go to the show, so now I'm really kicking myself. I think I saw a live album of theirs once, is it worth getting?? Any suggestions??? ------ Josh Goldberg ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 19 Feb 2000 12:05:33 -0500 From: "Jose" Message-ID: <88mia1$bfs$1@ussenterprise.ufp.org> Organization: They Might Be Giants, Unofficially http://www.tmbg.org Subject: TMBG: Re: NON-TMBG -- Moxy Fruvous, The Cure, Jonathan Richman Moxy Fruvous does indeed have a live album. Personally, I think they are amazing in concert, however, if you weren't a STD fan, then you probably should concentrate on their studio stuff first. "The B Album" and "Bargainville" are both exceptional albums. I'd get Bargainville next, as it has some of their more popular music on it. I also have "Wood" and it is a pretty good album also. I don't have their latest album, "Thorn Hill" because all the CD stores around here want me to pay $19 for it and I don't feel like buying it on CDNOW without hearing any of the music. Anyway, if you want to sample some of their music before you buy I will be willing to send you an mp3 or two via e-mail if you write back personally. Regards, Jose wrote in message news:b7.e8a496.25dffdbd@aol.com... > Hey, I just thought I'd check up and just give a few thoughts. I just picked > up the brand new Cure album, "Bloodflowers", and I must say...I haven't heard > anything this good in a LONG time. I mean, at this point, most of the bands I > like have their better work behind them. For example, Jonathan Richman's "I'm > So Confused" was a great album, but its not like anything from the Beserkley > years. Also, the latest Rentals album was kinda disappointing, eventhough the > first album was really strong. The live TMBG album was just a dumb idea to > begin with (how do you put a confetti cannon and a congo line on CD?), and > even some of the punk bands I like have lost their touch to me. How many > bands can steal NOFX guitar tabs off websites and claim them as their own? > Unfortunately..alot. Anyway, this new Cure album isn't like that really. Its > just good old fashioned Cure, and I think its a MUST BUY. If you've never > heard the Cure before, this would be a great way to start, I guess, unless > you wanna go back and try to find the older stuff. I personally have trouble > finding anything under 1994 in my Cleveland wasteland CD stores. > > Also, I just picked up my first Moxy Fruvous album, "You Will Go To The > Moon", and I like it a whole lot. I've only been able to listen to like the > first 4-5 songs, though, and I like it alot. Any suggestions for other > Fruvous albums?? They came to Cleveland a few months ago and I didn't go to > the show, so now I'm really kicking myself. I think I saw a live album of > theirs once, is it worth getting?? Any suggestions??? > > ------ > Josh Goldberg ------------------------------ Message-Id: <4.2.0.58.20000219135808.00954a00@mail.clemson.edu> Date: Sat, 19 Feb 2000 13:58:58 -0500 From: Adam Tyner Subject: Re: TMBG: Re: NON-TMBG -- Moxy Fruvous, The Cure, Jonathan Although I'd definitely consider Moxy Fruvous to be one of my favorite bands, "Thornhill" was immensely disappointing. Probably the biggest letdown on 1999 for me. -Adam At 12:05 PM 2/19/00 -0500, Jose wrote: >Moxy Fruvous does indeed have a live album. Personally, I think they are >amazing in concert, however, if you weren't a STD fan, then you probably >should concentrate on their studio stuff first. "The B Album" and >"Bargainville" are both exceptional albums. I'd get Bargainville next, as >it has some of their more popular music on it. I also have "Wood" and it is >a pretty good album also. I don't have their latest album, "Thorn Hill" >because all the CD stores around here want me to pay $19 for it and I don't >feel like buying it on CDNOW without hearing any of the music. Anyway, if >you want to sample some of their music before you buy I will be willing to >send you an mp3 or two via e-mail if you write back personally. ------------------------------ Message-ID: <38AEEAD9.39231FAB@ntwrks.com> Date: Sat, 19 Feb 2000 14:11:22 -0500 From: RedWolf Subject: TMBG: Re: All alone, all alone, all by myself RJ, There's no fingerprint on my Apollo 18. I suggest two things: it's your imagination, or your fingerprint has stained the paper (happens more often than you think). There is, however, part of a footprint printed under the word "mammal." Nah. It's probably just because I leave my CDs on the floor. Mr. Sazlo > I know this has nothing to do with poetry and I'm sorry to talk about > may sorry little sub-subject, but i now KNOW there is a finger print, on > the white area and overlapping the words right at the bottom of > fingertips, IT HAS TO BE THERE, the middle of the finger print is right > around SPACE SUIT, it's obviously a thumb print, it's most visible near > the area where it says fingertips, fingertips, right above space suit. > YOU CAN NOT SEE THIS IS ANY SORT OF REAL LIGHT, including bright lights. > Where I first saw this was at my work place where the lighting is kinda > spread out, I found that the super light grey that that it's printed > with is a lot easier to see at certain angles, and after you staring at > it a long time. It was so light at first I thought it was my own finger > smudge, but it's not, I've tried to wipe it off frequently but it > refuses to come off, I just made space suit a lot lighter...please > someone back me up on this. And yes, I do have a life, if you consider > sitting around and looking at this liner note all night a life. > > my room IS comfortably small, with rubber lining on the walls, and > someone IS always caling my name > > -absolutley Rj's mood > > ------------------------------ > > End of tmbg-list Digest #26-19 > ****************************** ------------------------------ From: MrBean43@aol.com Message-ID: Date: Sat, 19 Feb 2000 14:27:15 EST Subject: Re: TMBG: Newsletter and DAS (formally Brave New World) Which newsletter are we talking about? What's on the cover? Jon ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 19 Feb 2000 19:23:16 -0500 From: Adrienne Spruill Message-ID: <38AF33F4.E21857C7@epix.net> Organization: Student Subject: TMBG: okaaaaaay... So for weeks the list was quiet...as soon as I leave for a couple of days everyone starts talking. In the last 2 days there were 30 messages posted. You hate me don't you? (Christine...don't EVEN answer that.) -A ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 19 Feb 2000 19:25:45 -0500 From: Adrienne Spruill Message-ID: <38AF3489.B283C8B@epix.net> Organization: Student Subject: Re: TMBG: poetic songs Listening to Mammal as I type...it's all rhyming and stuff. Depends on what type of poetry youre doing. (did I mention that I'm an English major?) :o) -A Andrew Sawtelle wrote: > > At 05:50 PM 2/16/00 -0500, you wrote: > >They'll need a crane might be a good song...or Mister Me....or Snowball in > >Hell...hmm...I'm going to go listen to Lincoln... > >-Amber the Transcendent > > Or Meet James Ensor. > > _________/| |\_________ > |_________||ZOT! Andrew_Sawtelle@brown.edu ZOT!||_________| > \| www.angelfire.com/ri/kingfisher |/ ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 19 Feb 2000 19:39:24 -0500 From: Adrienne Spruill Message-ID: <38AF37BC.4E026A17@epix.net> Organization: Student Subject: TMBG: Alright people... Because I'm sick of listening to ya'll bitch at each other, lets clear a few things up... Subjective= room for interpretation. Ex. when grading personal, narrative essays, short answer questions. Subjective= very little room for interpretation. Ex. true/false questions, multiple choice etc. Poetry... There are certain rules for poetry, however, some people will call just about anything poetic. These are the same people who find a blank canvas to be "art." As for TMBG being poetic, they aren't. Sorry to burst any bubbles, but with the exception of some rhyming in a few songs, they don't fit the poetry "mold." And to justify myself, I'm in my second year of English education at Mansfield University. I'm no expert, but there's the textbook definitions for ya. NOW STOP BITCHING AT EACH OTHER!!!!!!! -A ------------------------------ From: MDG0611@aol.com Message-ID: Date: Sat, 19 Feb 2000 20:04:40 EST Subject: Re: TMBG: Alright people... In a message dated 2/19/00 6:38:01 PM, spruilla@epix.net writes: >there's the textbook definitions Apparently Mansfield University doesn't stress the use of proper grammar in its English department, yet the people on this list are supposed to view you as an authority- >There are certain rules for poetry, however, some people will call just >about anything poetic. These are the same people who find a blank >canvas to be "art." At any rate, poetry is meant to be spoken, lyrics are meant to be sung; therefore the syntax is utterly different. TMBG have very poetic lyrics. As a studio art major, I am insulted that you have chosen to decide what constitutes "art" for me and the rest of the list. With your attitude we would have missed out on several generation's worth of brilliant poetry and art because it didn't fit the "mold," or otherwise broke the "rules." You said you were in English education- as in teacher's ed? What a shame to have someone so closed-minded teaching our children intolerance. We wouldn't be here if it weren't for those who broke the rules. Don't get me started- Melissa ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 19 Feb 2000 21:46:11 -0500 From: Adrienne Spruill Message-ID: <38AF5573.DA6AB329@epix.net> Organization: Student Subject: Re: TMBG: Alright people... The definition of poetry is...a type of LITERATURE in which words are selected for their beauty, sound and power to express feelings. Traditionally, poems have had a specific rhythm and rhyme and written in lines grouped together called stanzas. As for the "rules" of poetry... BLANK VERSE- unrhymed poetry in iambic pentameter. HAIKU- 3 line with a total of 17 syllables. First and third lines, 5 syls.second line has 7 syls. SONNET- lyric poem of 14 lines in iambic pentameter with 5 accents in each line LIMERICK- humorous poetry, 5 lines, strong rhyme and a set rhythm of aabba NARRATIVE POETRY- tells a story told objectively. (those look like rules to me) I never claimed to be an authority, as you seem to think. I only pointed out that I wasn't pulling this info out my rear. As a matter of fact, I clearly stated that I wasn't an expert. I also take offense that you say my OPINION of what is art is wrong. So Melissa, before you go ranting and raving you ought to look into the subject matter more carefully and see that there ARE rules to poetry. If a writing doesn't possess some or all of these rules, it is not thought to be poetry, but rather, something else. As for art, if a blank canvas can be construed as art than someone give me a gold star and call me an artist because I have a blank piece of paper here next to me. -A ------------------------------ From: DrSaxx@aol.com Message-ID: Date: Sat, 19 Feb 2000 21:59:15 EST Subject: Re: TMBG: Newsletter and DAS (formally Brave New World) The info Club Newsletter...via snail mail.......it has a picture of TMBG standing in the brooklyn clock tower for "Older" in Brave New world Harlan DrSaxx@aol.com ------------------------------ From: MrBean43@aol.com Message-ID: <61.197674d.25e0c845@aol.com> Date: Sat, 19 Feb 2000 23:32:05 EST Subject: TMBG: Montana Is anyone on this list from the kalispell montana area? I met some people this past week from around there on a field trip to DC, and from what I understand there are quite a few obsessed tmbg fans out there in montana. Who would'a guessed. Jon ------------------------------ From: MDG0611@aol.com Message-ID: <43.1368fa7.25e0c990@aol.com> Date: Sat, 19 Feb 2000 23:37:36 EST Subject: Re: TMBG: Alright people... In a message dated 2/19/00 8:48:09 PM, spruilla@epix.net writes: >So Melissa, before you go ranting >and raving you ought to look into the subject matter more carefully and >see that there ARE rules to poetry. If a writing doesn't possess some or >all of these rules, it is not thought to be poetry, but rather, >something else. I took your advice, A (for Anonymous perhaps?), and dusted off my college textbooks to dismiss this petty discussion once and for all. If you have further arguments on the topic, take them up with the editors of "Interpreting Literature: Preliminaries to Literary Judgment." The "rules" as you state them do not encompass every poetic style; the most notable omission being "free verse," which is poetry that deviates from the rules governing traditional poetry. Perhaps you'll get to that part in your third year at Mansfield. According to you, TMBG lyrics can't be poetry because they don't follow the rules of traditional poetry. According to the Editors, "Poetry occurs any time, anywhere that people combine words and sound together in unusual and interesting ways." I think that pretty much sums up every TMBG song ever written. I did not say your opinion of art was wrong, I merely took offense at your insinuations of ignorance if one disagreed with your opinion. And if you call yourself an artist and you consider that piece of paper a work of your art, then here's a big ol' gold star for your bulletin board. Melissa ------------------------------ From: PRMega@aol.com Message-ID: <61.1971c63.25e0ccd7@aol.com> Date: Sat, 19 Feb 2000 23:51:35 EST Subject: TMBG: Dr. Worm and Broom videos OK, TMBG.com has apparently changed the way you open those two videos. Instead of d/ling them, they play in a seperate window. Does anyone know if there's a way to save the files (they used to be .mov) so I can watch them without being online? Thanks. PR Mega ------------------------------ From: HeYAnArChY@aol.com Message-ID: Date: Sun, 20 Feb 2000 00:48:15 EST Subject: Re: TMBG: Alright people... IMever-so-HO, in all but the most strict and rigid definitions, poetry is in the eye of the beholder. I write poetry, and while often I'll follow some forms of guidelines, I often make up my own syllable and rhyme schemes, and sometimes won't even bother to rhyme or whatnot. Poetry to me. I think Their lyrics (To not all, but a lot, of their songs) Are poetic, and on others, the whole of the music, such as At The End Of The Tour or Thunderbird (I love Thunderbird.) I consider to be poetic. Gr! ::Is ferocious:: <> We don't need to be angry, really, I don't think. Is there a major flame war in our near future...? Don't let's start! Lydia Going out of her way to make cheezy TMBG references since 1873 ------------------------------ From: MDG0611@aol.com Message-ID: <7f.eecaba.25e0dcfc@aol.com> Date: Sun, 20 Feb 2000 01:00:28 EST Subject: Re: TMBG: Alright people...still In a message dated 2/19/00 11:51:16 PM, HeYAnArChY@aol.com writes: >We don't need to be angry, really, I don't think. Is there a major flame >war > >in our near future...? Don't let's start! Nope. I just meant I didn't want to get all caught up in a discussion of the aesthetics of art. I've been subscribing to this list for a while, and I have kept quiet for the most part until now. I just couldn't let that one slide without comment. Cordially yours, Melissa ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 20 Feb 2000 01:12:24 -0500 From: "Jose" Message-ID: <88o0d7$10kn$1@ussenterprise.ufp.org> Organization: They Might Be Giants, Unofficially http://www.tmbg.org Subject: TMBG: Re: Alright people... Adrienne, Although your definitions of subjective/objective are relevant in reference to grading, they really are not appropriate in reference to one's definition of art. And, Adrienne, I hate to burst YOUR bubble but the words of someone with such an amazingly closed definition of poetry aren't about to change my definition of poetry. I would hope that the average reader of this list would be similarly unimpressed. Your analogy is a very poor one, as a blank canvas is comparable to a silent song without music or lyrics. Finding poetry in such a song may be a lot to ask, but, thankfully, nobody has made a claim of this sort. Your poetry "mold" probably wouldn't include a large body of works which the literary world accepts as poetic. As for your formal definitions of things such as Blank Verse, Haiku, et cetera, perhaps you could enlighten me as to what makes 3 lines or 17 syllables exceptionally "poetic." There is a pattern and meter specific to MANY TMBG songs also. I don't really see what the advantage is in a specific pattern, other than giving English majors something to do with their Saturdays. Poetry is nothing more than the imaginative and beautiful expression of ideas. Sometimes this expression holds a pattern, or meter. There is a fine and arguable line as to the difference between poetry and short prose, an argument I'm sure you have or will encounter in your education. As a side note, throw out whatever book gave you those definitions of objective and subjective. While your argument may be justifiable, I don't expect that anyone here doubts your existence and needs proof of such. Regards, Jose Adrienne Spruill wrote in message news:38AF37BC.4E026A17@epix.net... > Because I'm sick of listening to ya'll bitch at each other, lets clear a > few things up... > > Subjective= room for interpretation. Ex. when grading personal, > narrative essays, short answer questions. > Subjective= very little room for interpretation. Ex. true/false > questions, multiple choice etc. > > Poetry... > There are certain rules for poetry, however, some people will call just > about anything poetic. These are the same people who find a blank canvas > to be "art." > As for TMBG being poetic, they aren't. Sorry to burst any bubbles, but > with the exception of some rhyming in a few songs, they don't fit the > poetry "mold." > > And to justify myself, I'm in my second year of English education at > Mansfield University. I'm no expert, but there's the textbook > definitions for ya. NOW STOP BITCHING AT EACH OTHER!!!!!!! > -A ------------------------------ From: MDG0611@aol.com Message-ID: <96.155e006.25e0e150@aol.com> Date: Sun, 20 Feb 2000 01:18:56 EST Subject: Re: TMBG: Re: Alright people... In a message dated 2/20/00 12:12:12 AM, tclose@bgnet.bgsu.edu writes: >I don't really see what the advantage is in a specific pattern, >other than giving English majors something to do with their Saturdays. >Poetry is nothing more than the imaginative and beautiful expression of >ideas. So true, yet succinct!! :-) Melissa ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 20 Feb 2000 01:47:36 -0500 From: "Jose" Message-ID: <88o2f7$11r0$1@ussenterprise.ufp.org> Organization: They Might Be Giants, Unofficially http://www.tmbg.org Subject: Re: TMBG: Alright people... Adrienne, I think I'll respond to this one separately. Those are not "rules to poetry" as you claim, but, rather, classes of various types of poetry. The only difference I can find between LITERATURE (Caps apparently added for emphasis) and MUSIC is that music is sung, while literature is written. I might remind you that many of our earliest poems were told, not by pen, but by tongue. Many poems you will find in your average, run-of-the-mill literature anthology were originally sang by minstrels as ballads. The literature book used in my last college lit course contains, most notably, the song "Eleanor Rigby" by John Lennon and Paul McCartney. I'm not attacking your definition of poetry - I am providing a different and, I think, more representative definition of the large body of what many informed people might see as "poetry". Regards, Jose Adrienne Spruill wrote in message news:38AF5573.DA6AB329@epix.net... > The definition of poetry is...a type of LITERATURE in which words are > selected for their beauty, sound and power to express feelings. > Traditionally, poems have had a specific rhythm and rhyme and written in > lines grouped together called stanzas. > > As for the "rules" of poetry... > BLANK VERSE- unrhymed poetry in iambic pentameter. > HAIKU- 3 line with a total of 17 syllables. First and third lines, 5 > syls.second line has 7 syls. > SONNET- lyric poem of 14 lines in iambic pentameter with 5 accents in > each line > LIMERICK- humorous poetry, 5 lines, strong rhyme and a set rhythm of > aabba > NARRATIVE POETRY- tells a story told objectively. > (those look like rules to me) > > I never claimed to be an authority, as you seem to think. I only pointed > out that I wasn't pulling this info out my rear. As a matter of fact, I > clearly stated that I wasn't an expert. I also take offense that you say > my OPINION of what is art is wrong. So Melissa, before you go ranting > and raving you ought to look into the subject matter more carefully and > see that there ARE rules to poetry. If a writing doesn't possess some or > all of these rules, it is not thought to be poetry, but rather, > something else. As for art, if a blank canvas can be construed as art > than someone give me a gold star and call me an artist because I have a > blank piece of paper here next to me. > > -A ------------------------------ End of tmbg-list Digest #26-20 ******************************