Errors-To: owner-tmbg-digest@tmbg.org Reply-To: tmbg-digest@tmbg.org Sender: owner-tmbg-digest@tmbg.org Precedence: bulk From: owner-tmbg-digest@tmbg.org To: tmbg-digest@tmbg.org Subject: tmbg-list Digest #27-20 tmbg-list Digest, Volume 27, Number 20 Monday, 20 March 2000 Today's Topics: TMBG: We can't go on MEATING like this. TMBG: Re: We can't go on MEATING like this. TMBG: Cyclops Rock TMBG: Re: tmbg-list Digest #27-19 TMBG: Re: We can't go on MEATING like this. Re: TMBG: Re: We can't go on MEATING like this. Re:TMBG: Cyclops Rock TMBG: Cambridge Show? TMBG: DAS.com TMBG: Re: DAS.com Re: TMBG: Cambridge Show? Administrivia: If you wish to unsubscribe from this mailing send mail to tmbg-digest-request@tmbg.org for instructions on how to be automatically removed. --------------------------------------------------------------------- The views expressed herein are those of the individual authors. --------------------------------------------------------------------- tmbg-list is digested with Digest 3.5b (John Relph ). ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: cordelia@stayfree.co.uk Message-Id: <4.1.20000319114230.00946600@pop3.stayfree.co.uk> Message-Id: <4.1.20000319114230.00946600@pop3.stayfree.co.uk> Message-Id: <4.1.20000319114230.00946600@pop3.stayfree.co.uk> Date: Sun, 19 Mar 2000 12:18:34 +0000 Subject: TMBG: We can't go on MEATING like this. Jose, You missed all my points! There are big point-shaped spaces on the wall surrounded by hundreds of your bullet holes. You probably couldn't hit one of my points if I enlarged it to twenty feet high and stuck it on the side of a barn... >Date: Sat, 18 Mar 2000 12:46:22 -0500 >From: "Jose" >Alan, > >I particularly like "all the cows wouldn't exist if >>we didn't raise them for food and they have a nice life as a result" (so >lets breed extra humans to eat, why should the cows have all the fun?), > > That isn't the argument that anyone presents. Sure they do. I hear it all the time. Cows are raised in number >because we like to eat them. We bear the cost of supporting them, and this >gives us some say over their lives, i.e. they are not autonomous. Huh? YOU wouldn't be autonomous if we locked you up and ate you. >"a lot of >>vegetarians I know are thin and weedy" > > I wasn't trying to stereotype with my comment. But the point was that its more unhealthy to eat meat. Be honest, how many meat eaters do you know who could lose a few pounds? > and "if we take this to its logical conclusion we >>wouldn't be able to eat plants either" (that one's so dumb I don't know >where to start). > > People who claim that they value life, and, therefore, do not eat meat >should be met with this argument. You cannot exist without killing another >live entity, and thus such an attempt would result in your death. The >belief leads to paradox, and many judge that it is problematic for that >reason. If people establish a hierarchy of life and decide that they have >an obligation to only eat lower entities, this argument is inappropriate, >and indeed dumb. The point is that cows don't want to be eaten, neither do I - and I'm for neither of us having to be. Plants don't care either way. >>A hundred years from now people who talk like that are going to sound how >slave owners in the 19th century sound to us now. >...Because of the bias of media and >the necessity of the times I don't agree that all slave owners were bad >people... The point is: were they right or wrong to keep slaves? > In our current society I'm sure that no one will force me not to eat >meat. The arguments you provided were the same anti-meat arguments I hear >from my vegetarian friends all the time. And yet apparently you still don't understand any of them. >>Personally I have no hang ups about eating our dead. So, er, what's everyone's favourite TMBG album. I like John Henry myself. Alan Jenkins ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 19 Mar 2000 11:33:35 -0500 From: Adrienne Spruill Message-ID: <38D5015F.BAD963B5@epix.net> Organization: Student Subject: TMBG: Re: We can't go on MEATING like this. > So, er, what's everyone's favourite TMBG album. I like John Henry myself. Lincoln -A ------------------------------ Message-ID: <38D4BF4E.240AA56C@bu.edu> Date: Sun, 19 Mar 2000 11:51:42 +0000 From: Casey Schreiner Organization: Boston University Subject: TMBG: Cyclops Rock I just heard a version of Cyclops Rock on dial-a-song, and I thought it was absolutely awful. All the times I've heard it live, it's been a completely rockin' song, but on the DAS version, it just sounds tired. Maybe it's because it's slowed down a little bit... Maybe it's because the guitars aren't featured prominantly enough.... Maybe it's Flans' lower singing.... I don't know... I just don't like it.... -Casey, a vegetarian who doesn't care what other people eat. p.s. Favorite album: Apollo 18 ------------------------------ From: pzickler@iris.mtvernon.wednet.edu Message-Id: Date: Sun, 19 Mar 2000 09:50:21 -0800 Subject: TMBG: Re: tmbg-list Digest #27-19 I defend Jose's ethical right to like Lincoln best, as well as Dr. Rick's right to like the Joshua Fried remix. I also happen to agree with them. Next? PZ ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 19 Mar 2000 13:28:29 -0500 From: "Jose" Message-ID: <8b360n$2ekt$1@ussenterprise.ufp.org> Organization: They Might Be Giants, Unofficially http://www.tmbg.org Subject: TMBG: Re: We can't go on MEATING like this. >You missed all my points! There are big point-shaped spaces on the wall >surrounded by hundreds of your bullet holes. You probably couldn't hit one of >my points if I enlarged it to twenty feet high and stuck it on the side of a >barn... Your point was that A) There were atrocities occurring in the meat and dairy industry against animals. B) As ethical beings, we have an obligation to raise awareness about these atrocities. C) The Meat Out is a good idea because it raises awareness about the issue. My only response to your hyperbole is that it is easier to fish a point out of an argument when it isn't swimming with personal bias, anger, and mischaracterizations. I happen to disagree with the last point, and that is what the argument is about. >>I particularly like "all the cows wouldn't exist if >>>we didn't raise them for food and they have a nice life as a result" (so >>lets breed extra humans to eat, why should the cows have all the fun?), >> >> That isn't the argument that anyone presents. > >Sure they do. I hear it all the time. > That wasn't the topic we were discussing, so it seems odd to present it under the "rehash of pro-meat arguments" section. I don't deny that you may have heard it all the time off the newsgroup, simply that it wasn't discussed here. >Huh? YOU wouldn't be autonomous if we locked you up and ate you. > No - the lack of autonomy comes from the fact that cows require humans to protect them. Cows are incapable of living in the wild (a point I believe you granted earlier) so our releasing into the wild is as bad as killing them (just as much pain for cows). Thus, we feed them and care for them so we have some say as to their lives. I didn't mean to suggest they have no autonomy, just a lessened state of such. I can care for myself in the wild, should I choose, and therefore hold more autonomy. If I was a small child then I would be incapable of such and, hence, my parents would have a larger say than I over whether or not I could live in the jungle. >But the point was that its more unhealthy to eat meat. Be honest, how many meat >eaters do you know who could lose a few pounds? > Some. It may be unhealthy with a certain lifestyle to eat meat. As I suggested earlier, the research I have seen in the field has been inconclusive. People with high blood pressure or who are overweight shouldn't eat red meat. Chicken and fish are actually very low in fat and saturated fat (not to mention cholesterol). >The point is that cows don't want to be eaten, neither do I - and I'm for >neither of us having to be. Plants don't care either way. > We can presuppose that cows don't like to be eaten. I will further grant that plants don't care, although there is reasonable evidence that chemical reactions resembling pain do exist in the plant world. More centrally, the cow doesn't know that it will be eaten (I assume), it just doesn't like pain. There are a lot of questions I have as to consideration of pain caused versus pleasure/nutrition enjoyed. I take a relatively utilitarian stance on the issue. I don't think it is rational to discuss it solely in terms of "The cow doesn't like pain. I can't eat the cow because it will cause pain." >The point is: were they right or wrong to keep slaves? > Wrong, in my opinion. I still don't care whether or not a majority of people thinks they were wrong in their actions. The arguments you provided were the same anti-meat arguments I hear >>from my vegetarian friends all the time. > >And yet apparently you still don't understand any of them. > It is unfair to assume that I don't understand what your saying because I disagree. I think I have a good understanding of your argument. The arguments presented to me so far haven't been all that complex, Al. I would urge you to avoid ad homonym in favor of defending your point. Attacking me and not my position serves to make you look childish, in my opinion. Regards, Jose ------------------------------ Message-ID: <38D51E64.4DB9@bgnet.bgsu.edu> Date: Sun, 19 Mar 2000 13:37:24 -0500 From: "K.C." Subject: Re: TMBG: Re: We can't go on MEATING like this. I love it when lists get to the point of "You misread my argument and missed my point." BTW, it's "ad hominem," Latin "to the man." -- K.C. Kless "...I am a snake head eating the head on the opposite side..." Commissioner, Triumvir Fantasy Sports Campaign Manager, OUK 2000 docworm@tmbg.org, docworm@icestorm.net ------------------------------ Message-ID: <20000319221339.46839.qmail@hotmail.com> From: "eRiCh Cannon" Subject: Re:TMBG: Cyclops Rock Date: Sun, 19 Mar 2000 14:13:39 PST Woah! dont go basing you opinions on how things sound on dial-a-song dot com. The flash player makes the songs that way, slow and low and grainyish. Havent you heard other familiar songs that sound this way? The cyclops Rock you heard is the same one as 'What We Did This Summer' but just a low quality sound. Erich >I just heard a version of Cyclops Rock on dial-a-song, and I thought it >was absolutely awful. it just sounds tired. >Maybe it's because it's slowed down a little bit... Maybe it's because >the guitars aren't featured prominantly enough.... Maybe it's Flans' >lower singing.... I don't know... I just don't like it.... ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Message-ID: <38D54758.756E11F8@bu.edu> Date: Sun, 19 Mar 2000 21:32:08 +0000 From: Casey Schreiner Organization: Boston University Subject: TMBG: Cambridge Show? Hey people! On Theymightbegiants.com, there's an April 28th show in Cambridge at MIT that's listed as private. Are there any MIT-goers out here who'd be willing to look into getting a BU Terrier snuck in from across the river? -Casey -- "People tell me everyday, 'Don't tell people what to do,' But that's alright, I'll do it like they tell me to." -Brian Dewan ------------------------------ From: CallMeDoctorWorm@aol.com Message-ID: <92.28f8840.2606f4c5@aol.com> Date: Sun, 19 Mar 2000 22:28:05 EST Subject: TMBG: DAS.com AAHHH! How do I get past the odd jack in the box dude?!? "I make it a point to listen to TMBG every day, if I don't it's a sin." Dr. Rick Worm Chief of Surgical Staff The Worm Clinic Shaker Heights, Ohio ------------------------------ From: CallMeDoctorWorm@aol.com Message-ID: <4d.2358a63.2606f569@aol.com> Date: Sun, 19 Mar 2000 22:30:49 EST Subject: TMBG: Re: DAS.com << AAHHH! How do I get past the odd jack in the box dude?!? >> Never mind, I guess I don't. Computer's too slow. "I make it a point to listen to TMBG every day, if I don't it's a sin." Dr. Rick Worm Chief of Surgical Staff The Worm Clinic Shaker Heights, Ohio ------------------------------ From: GhostKrabb@webtv.net (Dexter Flansburgh) Date: Sun, 19 Mar 2000 22:15:23 -0800 (PST) Subject: Re: TMBG: Cambridge Show? Message-ID: <27991-38D5C1FB-8976@storefull-243.iap.bryant.webtv.net> --WebTV-Mail-18652-4905 Content-Type: Text/Plain; Charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7Bit MIT, huh? How cool would it be if there was a Dan & Cog reunion? Your's... somewhat, Dexter Flansburgh "Once I was part of the problem, now I am part of the past" - Mike Viola --WebTV-Mail-18652-4905 Content-Disposition: Inline Content-Type: Message/RFC822 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7Bit Received: from mailsorter-101-5.iap.bryant.webtv.net (209.240.198.30) by storefull-242.iap.bryant.webtv.net with WTV-SMTP; Sun, 19 Mar 2000 18:38:21 -0800 (PST) Return-Path: Received: from ussenterprise.ufp.org (ussenterprise.ufp.org [209.249.97.242]) by mailsorter-101-5.iap.bryant.webtv.net (8.8.8-wtv-f/ms.dwm.v7+dul2) with ESMTP id SAA17234 for ; Sun, 19 Mar 2000 18:37:57 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (majordom@localhost) by ussenterprise.ufp.org (8.9.3/8.9.2) with SMTP id VAA95420; Sun, 19 Mar 2000 21:36:09 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from owner-tmbg-list) Received: by ussenterprise.ufp.org (bulk_mailer v1.6); Sun, 19 Mar 2000 21:35:58 -0500 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by ussenterprise.ufp.org (8.9.3/8.9.2) id VAA95397 for tmbg-list-outgoing; Sun, 19 Mar 2000 21:35:58 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from owner-tmbg-list@tmbg.org) Received: from relay1.bu.edu (RELAY1.BU.EDU [128.197.153.99]) by ussenterprise.ufp.org (8.9.3/8.9.2) with ESMTP id VAA95386 for ; Sun, 19 Mar 2000 21:35:57 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from python@bu.edu) Received: from bu.edu (COMM700-C1401-060.BU.EDU [168.122.235.60]) by relay1.bu.edu ((8.9.3.buoit.v1.0.ACS)/) with ESMTP id VAA28346 for ; Sun, 19 Mar 2000 21:35:55 -0500 Message-ID: <38D54758.756E11F8@bu.edu> Date: Sun, 19 Mar 2000 21:32:08 +0000 From: Casey Schreiner Organization: Boston University X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en] (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: tmbg-list@tmbg.org Subject: TMBG: Cambridge Show? Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-tmbg-list@tmbg.org Reply-To: Casey Schreiner Hey people! On Theymightbegiants.com, there's an April 28th show in Cambridge at MIT that's listed as private. Are there any MIT-goers out here who'd be willing to look into getting a BU Terrier snuck in from across the river? -Casey -- "People tell me everyday, 'Don't tell people what to do,' But that's alright, I'll do it like they tell me to." -Brian Dewan --WebTV-Mail-18652-4905-- ------------------------------ End of tmbg-list Digest #27-20 ******************************