Errors-To: owner-tmbg-digest@tmbg.org Reply-To: tmbg-digest@tmbg.org Sender: owner-tmbg-digest@tmbg.org Precedence: bulk From: owner-tmbg-digest@tmbg.org To: tmbg-digest@tmbg.org Subject: tmbg-list Digest #29-20 tmbg-list Digest, Volume 29, Number 20 Saturday, 20 May 2000 Today's Topics: TMBG: New Thread : S and TMBG Re: TMBG: New Thread : S and TMBG TMBG: New Thread: S and TMBG & Old Thread: WUFTM EP Re: TMBG: New Thread : S and TMBG TMBG: re: emusic $10 coupon--thanks for TMBG music Re: TMBG: free 10$ account Re: TMBG: free 10$ account Re: TMBG: free 10$ account Re: TMBG: free 10$ account TMBG: Re: emusic $10 coupon--thanks for TMBG music Re: TMBG: New Thread: S and TMBG & Old Thread: WUFTM EP Re: TMBG: New Thread : S and TMBG Re: TMBG: New Thread : S and TMBG Re: TMBG: New Thread : S and TMBG Re[2]: TMBG: New Thread : S and TMBG Re: Re[2]: TMBG: New Thread : S and TMBG TMBG: problems with tmbg.com TMBG: School children singing Particle Man, move over! TMBG: DO NOT DOWNLOAD ANYTHING FROM THIS SCREEN NAME! Administrivia: If you wish to unsubscribe from this mailing send mail to tmbg-digest-request@tmbg.org for instructions on how to be automatically removed. --------------------------------------------------------------------- The views expressed herein are those of the individual authors. --------------------------------------------------------------------- tmbg-list is digested with Digest 3.5b (John Relph ). ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Josh2Face@aol.com Message-ID: Date: Fri, 19 May 2000 07:28:35 EDT Subject: TMBG: New Thread : S and TMBG Hey, I was in my good friend's car and he was listening to Metallica's S&M album, for those of you that don't know, Metallica (the metal/hard rock band) played with a full symphony and made a big album out of it...well, it got me thinking... S&TMBG!! What songs would you say would sound awesome with a full symphony? I'd say "Dr.Worm" would be good, but I also think "Spy" and "She's Actual Size" would be kickass as well. Any ideas on what other Symphony & TMBG songs would be good? P.S -- If this has already been a thread, I apologize to whoever came up with it first. ------------------------------ Date: 19 May 2000 06:53:49 -0800 Message-ID: <-1253403269ggr@wlg.com> From: Bongo Subject: Re: TMBG: New Thread : S and TMBG On Saturday, July 8, 1939, Josh2Face@aol.com wrote: >S&TMBG!! What songs would you say would sound awesome with a >full symphony? You're talking about songs actually performed by TMBG with symphony backing, right? I wouldn't mind that but it wouldn't necessarily need to be a full orchestra. Sometimes just a string section does wonders. (The end of SEXXY was the best part!) Elvis Costello did an excellent album with Brodsky Quartet. As far as I can tell, that type of thing was started with The Beatles. (Eleanor Rigby for example.) Also many of the big rock bands have had CDs with symphonic cover versions of their songs. I have a Pink Floyd one like that. I don't think TMBG will ever get big enough for that to happen though. -B O N G O ------------------------------ Message-ID: From: Amy Greenlese Subject: TMBG: New Thread: S and TMBG & Old Thread: WUFTM EP Date: Fri, 19 May 2000 10:12:03 -0400 The symphony backup is a really good idea, and I'm surprised it hasn't been brought up before! Or, if it has, I was in my own little dream world and missed it (that happens every now and then). I think it would be most effective with songs on the older albums, that didn't have the full band backup already. She's An Angel is the one that popped into my mind first, but it could probably work with most anything. Now, on to the EP. First of all, thanks to whoever posted that link to the $10 credit. I really liked the first 4 songs, Rest Awhile in particular. I didn't much care for the a cappella part in On the Drag, but the rest of the song was great - I've liked it since I heard it live a few years ago. The Radio TMBG snippets were ok, but like someone said, they are kind of out of place as CD tracks. Maybe we're meant to listen to the CD on shuffle, like Apollo 18. Robot Parade was...interesting. I definitely like the first version better, and I hope they put that one on the kids album. This new version could be the stuff of nightmares. Amy :) My sole purpose in life is to serve as a warning to others. ------------------------------ From: Kaylum@aol.com Message-ID: <7f.48ea91f.2656abd7@aol.com> Date: Fri, 19 May 2000 10:38:15 EDT Subject: Re: TMBG: New Thread : S and TMBG Did you happen to see the fully orchestrated performance of SEXXY They did on Conan (complete with gold lame' jackets)? That was cool :) Kay, eagerly looking forward to the Conan appearance next Friday (but sad about Andy leaving) ------------------------------ Message-ID: <39254435.D5567ECD@st.com> Date: Fri, 19 May 2000 08:40:05 -0500 From: Russ Josephson Organization: STMicroelectronics, Inc Subject: TMBG: re: emusic $10 coupon--thanks for TMBG music > From: "Jay G." > Message-ID: <8fv7vr$v8h$1@ussenterprise.ufp.org> > Organization: They Might Be Giants, Unofficially http://www.tmbg.org > Subject: TMBG: free $10 Emusic credit. Hello Jay, Thanks for posting this. I signed up on emusic yesterday and purchased the "Working Undercover" EP, despite my reluctance to register a credit card. I also don't like to buy music when I have to provide my own media to store it on, but this time I can get a _real_ CD as part of the deal. So when I saw the posting about the $10 credit, I went back and used it to purchase "Long Tall Weekend". Yes, I've been dragging my feet on this one, but now I have it. About the whole mp3 thing--John and John are just so hip to the latest technology. And I think that mp3 players will soon replace the current generation of walkman players. (As soon as Sony can make those $$###%!!! memory sticks cheaper.) Since KBCO in Colorado stopped broadcasting Dr. Demento, the only way I can listen to the show is by internet broadcast (unreliable with my dial-up connection) or by downloading mp3 files of the show that other kind people have archived. Thanks, Russ P.S. To all the long-suffering and patient TMBG fans who have been waiting for TMBG video bootleg #4 ... I soon expect to have enough material to finish it. If I owe you a tape in trade, feel free to remind me! For more information, visit my page at: http://www.geocities.com/russj_yah/tmbg.htm > Sender: owner-tmbg-list@tmbg.org > Precedence: bulk > Reply-To: "Jay G." > > This was posted to the alt.music.tmbg newsgroup: > > If you go to www.flamingoworld.com and click on > the 'coupons A-G' link, you'll find a link to a free > $10 Emusic credit. all you have to do is start > an account or login to your pre-existing one. > > For those who're too lazy to go through > flamigoworld, the direct link is below. > http://www.emusic.com/promo/roundcard/?http://service.bfast.com/bfast/click? > bfmid=9613914&siteid=26595186 > > Now everyone should be able to get a copy. > > -Jay -- ________________ Russ Josephson, Principal Engineer / _____________/ STMicroelectronics / / ______ ___ TPA Group, Data Storage Division / ( ( / / / VLSI Boulder Technology Center / \ \ / / / Drive Development Team /______) ) / / / 1625 S. Fordham, Suite 500 /_/ /__/ Longmont, Colorado 80503 USA E mailto:Russell.JOSEPHSON@st.com Voice: 1 303 381 3584 Fax: 1 303 381 3660 ------------------------------ Message-Id: Date: Fri, 19 May 2000 08:29:53 -0700 From: "Pzickler" Subject: Re: TMBG: free 10$ account >Destin did have a viable idea: get your $10 emusic coupon, order the MP3, d/l >it or don't, and sit back & wait for the delivery of your CD. Et Voila !! >And >while you're waiting for your CD, help yourself to a nice whateverburger, with >my blessings. > Karin H >** FREE THE EXPO 67 ** Yeah, I got the $10 coupon, and, although I already had both WUFTM and LTW, I fished around the eMusic site and found this cool MP3 album by Hal Willner called "Whoops, I'm an Indian". Now if only I could get MacAmp to start working again, I could play all these great MP3's.... PZ ------------------------------ Date: 19 May 2000 08:36:17 -0800 Message-ID: <-1253397121ggr@wlg.com> From: Bongo Subject: Re: TMBG: free 10$ account On Friday, July 7, 1939, DeLaurentis wrote: >Oh my god, i got the ten dollars, downloaded WUFTM, qualified for the CD, >registered under a different email using the exact same information, and >downloaded LTW. Both for free! >I'm the most evil person i know! Mwa ha ha ha ha! Okay, lets examine the legal, logical and moral implications of this... 1) LEGAL: Apparently emusic is offering the $10.00 credit for opening a new account. I didn't see anything that said a person can't have more than one account. Maybe its an oversight or maybe they are aware of the potential for "abuse". Anyway, the adage "buyer beware" has always meant that its the consumer's responsibility to research the offer. If the consumer misses something, too bad...he's screwed. So why shouldn't it work the other way? 2) LOGICAL: I have reason to believe it *does* work. By creating a new account with a different email address, you will in fact get the credit. You can use that credit for WUFTM and you will qualify for the CD version. No credit card number is needed. (Its not like those AOL "500 Hours Free" discs where you still need to enter credit card info even if you're only going to use the credit.) The thing is, I would consider entering a different mailing address and creating the account under a different name (just in case there's some cross checking going on.) The best situation might be to have a friend let you use his name, address and email account. There would be absolutely no way for emusic to connect the two of you. 3) MORAL: Just because you CAN do it and its NOT ILLEGAL doesn't mean that you SHOULD do it. This is the most difficult aspect to decide. I paid my 8 bucks and got WUFTM fair and square but I was hoping to get an extra copy of the CD. I would have been more than happy to pay another $8 for the second CD but emusic states its one-per-customer only. I was thinking of getting around that by using a different credit card/emusic account/email address/shipping address (a lot of work!) Problem is you need to use the same name as the one on the credit card so that makes it tricky. Some moral questions to consider: 1) Does anyone *deserve* the right to pay $8 for a second copy? (Probably not.) 2) Does using this loophole hurt the band? (If it did, then I would be against it but I don't think it does. This release can be good for them in two ways. One is the money they get for it. Even if we assume that they didn't get paid up front (and are getting a cut of the sales) would they get less just because emusic decided to give copies away for free? I don't think so. The other way it might help the band is by its success in terms of total sold. Will the total sold exclude those obtained by using the credit? (Almost definitely not.) 3)If you don't have a credit card (or don't want to use it) then there is *absolutely nothing wrong* with using the emusic credit. That's their offer and you are using it as intended. BUT is that really fair to someone like me that actually supported emusic? Why should the ones who are paying nothing be more entitled to a free CD when they have no intention of contributing to the business. Most of you probably stopped reading this halfway through and are on your way to getting your freebie. I won't say if I have personally taken advantage of this loophole but at least I've taken the time to think it through. I haven't come to a conclusion so I'd like to hear you advice. -B O N G O ------------------------------ Message-ID: <001b01bfc1aa$19b11520$a600a8c0@icka.net> From: "The Bastard Snowman" Subject: Re: TMBG: free 10$ account Date: Fri, 19 May 2000 09:51:29 -0600 Alrighty then. Here's my advice. Firstly, from a marketing standpoint, coupons do not hurt the profits of any company - not to any appreciable degree, anyway. Emusic can't refuse TMBG their share of a particular album sale, either, if the coupon was used. That's like someone selling a bunch of your stuff for you, then refusing to pay you for one item just 'cause they were stupid enough to give it away for nothing. You could take them to court. My point is that using the special offer to get the album, no matter how many times you do it, will not hurt TMBG in any way. It might, however, affect the ability of another consumer to get the CD copy if you do it more than once, yourself. And that's just messed up. :0P Anyway, there's my two cents - or ten dollars as it were. Signed, Nick Wolf, TMBG Ambassador to the State of New Mexico And then there was my NEW AND IMPROVED web page... http://www.nmt.edu/~refund/ AND a MUSH, too... (Based on Anne McCaffrey's Pern novels.) telnet://mush1.nis4u.com:4201 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bongo" To: ; "Gary Richardson" Sent: Friday, May 19, 2000 10:36 AM Subject: Re: TMBG: free 10$ account > > > On Friday, July 7, 1939, DeLaurentis wrote: > >Oh my god, i got the ten dollars, downloaded WUFTM, qualified for the CD, > >registered under a different email using the exact same information, and > >downloaded LTW. Both for free! > >I'm the most evil person i know! Mwa ha ha ha ha! > > > Okay, lets examine the legal, logical and moral implications of this... > > 1) LEGAL: Apparently emusic is offering the $10.00 credit for opening a new account. I didn't see anything that said a person can't have more than one account. Maybe its an oversight or maybe they are aware of the potential for "abuse". Anyway, the adage "buyer beware" has always meant that its the consumer's responsibility to research the offer. If the consumer misses something, too bad...he's screwed. So why shouldn't it work the other way? > > 2) LOGICAL: I have reason to believe it *does* work. By creating a new account with a different email address, you will in fact get the credit. You can use that credit for WUFTM and you will qualify for the CD version. No credit card number is needed. (Its not like those AOL "500 Hours Free" discs where you still need to enter credit card info even if you're only going to use the credit.) The thing is, I would consider entering a different mailing address and creating the account under a different name (just in case there's some cross checking going on.) The best situation might be to have a friend let you use his name, address and email account. There would be absolutely no way for emusic to connect the two of you. > > 3) MORAL: Just because you CAN do it and its NOT ILLEGAL doesn't mean that you SHOULD do it. This is the most difficult aspect to decide. I paid my 8 bucks and got WUFTM fair and square but I was hoping to get an extra copy of the CD. I would have been more than happy to pay another $8 for the second CD but emusic states its one-per-customer only. I was thinking of getting around that by using a different credit card/emusic account/email address/shipping address (a lot of work!) Problem is you need to use the same name as the one on the credit card so that makes it tricky. > > Some moral questions to consider: > > 1) Does anyone *deserve* the right to pay $8 for a second copy? (Probably not.) > > 2) Does using this loophole hurt the band? (If it did, then I would be against it but I don't think it does. This release can be good for them in two ways. One is the money they get for it. Even if we assume that they didn't get paid up front (and are getting a cut of the sales) would they get less just because emusic decided to give copies away for free? I don't think so. The other way it might help the band is by its success in terms of total sold. Will the total sold exclude those obtained by using the credit? (Almost definitely not.) > > 3)If you don't have a credit card (or don't want to use it) then there is *absolutely nothing wrong* with using the emusic credit. That's their offer and you are using it as intended. BUT is that really fair to someone like me that actually supported emusic? Why should the ones who are paying nothing be more entitled to a free CD when they have no intention of contributing to the business. > > Most of you probably stopped reading this halfway through and are on your way to getting your freebie. I won't say if I have personally taken advantage of this loophole but at least I've taken the time to think it through. I haven't come to a conclusion so I'd like to hear you advice. > > -B O N G O > > ------------------------------ Message-ID: <3925630C.778A355E@mailandnews.com> Date: Fri, 19 May 2000 10:51:40 -0500 From: Destin Berthelot Subject: Re: TMBG: free 10$ account Not to start another argument, but I'm totally OK with using the $10 credit multiple times. The only thing I would say is, please don't buy multiple personal copies of WUFTM with it, because the CD is only available for a limited # of purchasers... and it's just nicer to let everyone who wants one get one before you go back for seconds. I'd say the same thing if you were actually paying for both copies. But, of course, you're well within your moral rights to buy two copies and possibly deny someone else their first, I'm just saying that's how I see it. I think I've become of this opinion with pretty much everything since a month ago, when I saw a dude coming out of Toys R Us with all 10 of the $10-originally-$80 Imperial Walkers they had just gotten in... jerk. One! I wanted one! At least keep it to two, guys... unless you're buying to supply a computerless friend. If I see someone selling the CD on eBay in two months, ooo, we gonna have to throw down. Destin Bongo wrote: > On Friday, July 7, 1939, DeLaurentis wrote: > >Oh my god, i got the ten dollars, downloaded WUFTM, qualified for the CD, > >registered under a different email using the exact same information, and > >downloaded LTW. Both for free! > >I'm the most evil person i know! Mwa ha ha ha ha! > > Okay, lets examine the legal, logical and moral implications of this... > > 1) LEGAL: Apparently emusic is offering the $10.00 credit for opening a new account. I didn't see anything that said a person can't have more than one account. Maybe its an oversight or maybe they are aware of the potential for "abuse". Anyway, the adage "buyer beware" has always meant that its the consumer's responsibility to research the offer. If the consumer misses something, too bad...he's screwed. So why shouldn't it work the other way? > > 2) LOGICAL: I have reason to believe it *does* work. By creating a new account with a different email address, you will in fact get the credit. You can use that credit for WUFTM and you will qualify for the CD version. No credit card number is needed. (Its not like those AOL "500 Hours Free" discs where you still need to enter credit card info even if you're only going to use the credit.) The thing is, I would consider entering a different mailing address and creating the account under a different name (just in case there's some cross checking going on.) The best situation might be to have a friend let you use his name, address and email account. There would be absolutely no way for emusic to connect the two of you. > > 3) MORAL: Just because you CAN do it and its NOT ILLEGAL doesn't mean that you SHOULD do it. This is the most difficult aspect to decide. I paid my 8 bucks and got WUFTM fair and square but I was hoping to get an extra copy of the CD. I would have been more than happy to pay another $8 for the second CD but emusic states its one-per-customer only. I was thinking of getting around that by using a different credit card/emusic account/email address/shipping address (a lot of work!) Problem is you need to use the same name as the one on the credit card so that makes it tricky. > > Some moral questions to consider: > > 1) Does anyone *deserve* the right to pay $8 for a second copy? (Probably not.) > > 2) Does using this loophole hurt the band? (If it did, then I would be against it but I don't think it does. This release can be good for them in two ways. One is the money they get for it. Even if we assume that they didn't get paid up front (and are getting a cut of the sales) would they get less just because emusic decided to give copies away for free? I don't think so. The other way it might help the band is by its success in terms of total sold. Will the total sold exclude those obtained by using the credit? (Almost definitely not.) > > 3)If you don't have a credit card (or don't want to use it) then there is *absolutely nothing wrong* with using the emusic credit. That's their offer and you are using it as intended. BUT is that really fair to someone like me that actually supported emusic? Why should the ones who are paying nothing be more entitled to a free CD when they have no intention of contributing to the business. > > Most of you probably stopped reading this halfway through and are on your way to getting your freebie. I won't say if I have personally taken advantage of this loophole but at least I've taken the time to think it through. I haven't come to a conclusion so I'd like to hear you advice. > > -B O N G O -- Destin Berthelot destin@bigfoot.com "The fourth dimension is just one big crazy do-not-enter clambake jungle of weirdity! And how does it work? Never mind!" -The Tick ------------------------------ From: tmbgirl@juno.com Date: Fri, 19 May 2000 10:32:59 -0600 Subject: TMBG: Re: emusic $10 coupon--thanks for TMBG music Message-ID: <20000519.103338.5062.0.TMBgirl@juno.com> >Since KBCO in Colorado stopped broadcasting Dr. Demento, the only >way I can listen to the show is by internet broadcast (unreliable >with my dial-up connection) or by downloading mp3 files of the show >that other kind people have archived. Russ... not sure if you'll check this before the show but i think that tonight at, uhm, the gothic theater in denver there is a "dr. demento" show. I'm reluctant to head over to it because i'm not really sure what all it entails and there are a few other cool gigs happening tonight in CO. but hey, thought i'd let ya know just in case... and when did KBCO stop? take it easy, JOrdaN -yes it's good to be back in CO. http://www.geocities.com/tmbgirl.geo/ ________________________________________________________________ YOU'RE PAYING TOO MUCH FOR THE INTERNET! Juno now offers FREE Internet Access! Try it today - there's no risk! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj. ------------------------------ Message-ID: <20000519174211.48500.qmail@hotmail.com> From: "Nathan Mulac DeHoff" Subject: Re: TMBG: New Thread: S and TMBG & Old Thread: WUFTM EP Date: Fri, 19 May 2000 17:42:11 GMT Amy: >The symphony backup is a really good idea, and I'm surprised it hasn't been >brought up before! Or, if it has, I was in my own little dream world and >missed it (that happens every now and then). I think it would be most >effective with songs on the older albums, that didn't have the full band >backup already. She's An Angel is the one that popped into my mind first, >but it could probably work with most anything. What about "Boat Of Car"? Or maybe "The Big Big Whoredom"? Incidentally, Camper Van Beethoven's latest album includes an orchestral version of "All Her Favorite Fruit," and it sounds great. >The Radio TMBG snippets were ok, but like someone said, they are kind of >out of >place as CD tracks. Maybe we're meant to listen to the CD on shuffle, like >Apollo 18. Maybe, but shuffling nine tracks really wouldn't be that exciting. >Robot Parade was...interesting. I definitely like the first >version better, and I hope they put that one on the kids album. This new >version could be the stuff of nightmares. I think that's why they put it on this EP, rather than on the children's album. -- Eat your broccoli, Nathan DinnerBell@tmbg.org http://www.geocities.com/fablesto/ ________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Message-ID: <20000519174308.31944.qmail@hotmail.com> From: "Nathan Mulac DeHoff" Subject: Re: TMBG: New Thread : S and TMBG Date: Fri, 19 May 2000 17:43:08 GMT Kay: >Did you happen to see the fully orchestrated performance of SEXXY They did >on Conan (complete with gold lame' jackets)? But no purple toupees? -- Eat your broccoli, Nathan DinnerBell@tmbg.org http://www.geocities.com/fablesto/ ________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 19 May 2000 14:17:51 -0400 From: Adrienne Spruill Message-ID: <3925854F.A79E463A@epix.net> Organization: Student Subject: Re: TMBG: New Thread : S and TMBG Ana Ng ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 19 May 2000 13:18:42 -0500 (CDT) From: Frank Fudderman Subject: Re: TMBG: New Thread : S and TMBG Message-ID: On Fri, 19 May 2000, Adrienne Spruill wrote: > Ana Ng > I have been thinking this for years. --Jamal ------------------------------ From: karinh@sterl.com Message-Id: <0005199587.AA958760510@smtplink.sterl.com> Date: Fri, 19 May 2000 14:21:46 -0400 Subject: Re[2]: TMBG: New Thread : S and TMBG Yes !!! Wouldn't that sound bitchin, with those really Eleanor Rigby sort of strings going da daDa da daDa da da da..... Seriously - - - Karin H ** FREE THE EXPO 67 ** ____________________Reply Separator____________________ Subject: Re: TMBG: New Thread : S and TMBG Author: Adrienne Spruill Date: 05/19/00 2:17 PM Ana Ng ------------------------------ Message-ID: <20000519200804.98613.qmail@hotmail.com> From: "Ian The Bold" Subject: Re: Re[2]: TMBG: New Thread : S and TMBG Date: Fri, 19 May 2000 16:08:02 EDT I think Sensurround would be cool with a symphony. Also Hide Away Folk Family (minus fake backwards singing), and Subliminal. "I'm just a piano playin' asshole." -Ben Folds -Ian ________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Message-ID: <20000519202313.11673.qmail@hotmail.com> From: "Ian The Bold" Subject: TMBG: problems with tmbg.com Date: Fri, 19 May 2000 16:23:13 EDT Is anyone else getting javascript error messages at tmbg.com? When it first opens, it says "Content not defined." Then if I try to access a link, it says "OpenWin not defined." Can anyone help? Yours, Ian ________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ From: MrBean43@aol.com Message-ID: <17.5cc9edd.265735bb@aol.com> Date: Fri, 19 May 2000 20:26:35 EDT Subject: TMBG: School children singing Particle Man, move over! If you haven't downloaded and listened to the 3 new songs posted at www.twistid.com/tmbg, you must go check them out right now! They're three of the strangest TMBG related items I've ever come across. And if you've ever heard the version of Particle Man sung enitrely by elementary school kids (which is on the 'Then' CD), you definetley have to check these out. Jon ------------------------------ From: MikeTheGiant@aol.com Message-ID: <7b.44f85c3.26575d5a@aol.com> Date: Fri, 19 May 2000 23:15:38 EDT Subject: TMBG: DO NOT DOWNLOAD ANYTHING FROM THIS SCREEN NAME! IT'S A VIRUS, PLEASE PROTECT YOURSELF BY NOT DOWNLOADING IT ------------------------------ End of tmbg-list Digest #29-20 ******************************