Errors-To: owner-tmbg-digest@tmbg.org Reply-To: tmbg-digest@tmbg.org Sender: owner-tmbg-digest@tmbg.org Precedence: bulk From: owner-tmbg-digest@tmbg.org To: tmbg-digest@tmbg.org Subject: tmbg-list Digest #35-7 tmbg-list Digest, Volume 35, Number 7 Tuesday, 7 November 2000 Today's Topics: TMBG: Re: Voting, is it our responsibility??? TMBG: Re: Voting, is it our responsibility??? Re: TMBG: Voting, is it our responsibility??? Re: TMBG: Re: Voting, is it our responsibility??? non TMBG: Re: Voting, is it our responsibility??? Re: TMBG: Re: Voting, is it our responsibility??? TMBG: Re: tmbg-list Digest #35-6 TMBG: Re: Voting, is it our responsibility??? TMBG: Re: tmbg-list Digest #35-6 Re: non-TMBG: Re: Voting, is it our responsibility??? Re: non-TMBG: Re: Voting, is it our responsibility??? Re: non-TMBG: Re: Voting, is it our responsibility??? Re: non-TMBG: Re: Voting, is it our responsibility??? Re: non-TMBG: Re: Voting, is it our responsibility??? Re: non-TMBG: Re: Voting, is it our responsibility??? Re: non-TMBG: Re: Voting, is it our responsibility??? Re: non-TMBG: Re: Voting, is it our responsibility??? Re: non-TMBG: Re: Voting, is it our responsibility??? Re: non-TMBG: Re: Voting, is it our responsibility??? Re: non-TMBG: Re: Voting, is it our responsibility??? NON-TMBG: Bush? Administrivia: If you wish to unsubscribe from this mailing send mail to tmbg-digest-request@tmbg.org for instructions on how to be automatically removed. --------------------------------------------------------------------- The views expressed herein are those of the individual authors. --------------------------------------------------------------------- tmbg-list is digested with Digest 3.5b (John Relph ). ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: pzickler@mv.k12.wa.us Message-ID: <3A065EBE.E17F7E6A@mv.k12.wa.us> Date: Sun, 05 Nov 2000 23:33:18 -0800 Subject: TMBG: Re: Voting, is it our responsibility??? > > What the hell is the point of voting? > > Unfortunately, you've been misled into thinking that there's only one office up for election on Tuesday. Yes, the presidential race isn't impacted much, if at all, by your vote. But there are TONS of state and local offices that probably affect you way more than the president does anyway, and guess what? YOUR VOTE MATTERS in those elections. I get so damn sick of the 18 to whatever yr olds whining about how politics doesn't interest them and politicians don't care about them, but have you ever sent an email to your state legislator? Some of them actually read them! Granted, the US House and Senate dudes are too busy trying to get money from big business and special interest lobbyists to listen, but your state reps only cover a relatively small area, and THEY are the ones who make most of your las anyway! So yeah, don't vote for president, but take the half hour of precious tv watching time to go and vote in those other elections. The ones that matter. PZ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 6 Nov 2000 05:44:49 -0600 From: "Polaris" Message-ID: <8u65gs$2jbq$1@ussenterprise.ufp.org> Organization: They Might Be Giants, Unofficially http://www.tmbg.org Subject: TMBG: Re: Voting, is it our responsibility??? wrote in message news:f9.4493449.27379fd1@aol.com... > Okay, here's how I look at voting: > > With all this talk about Gore, Bush, and Nader, I have just one theory. What > the hell is the point of voting? There's this wonderful **cough, cough** > thing called "The Electoral College". Most people think that they follow > popular vote, when in fact they don't. Grant it, the have for the most part > in the past, but they did screw up once (Dewey vs. Truman). Truman lost > popular vote, but the electoral college voted him into office anyway. If no > one were to vote this Tuesday, the E.C. would put whomever they wanted into > office. Therefore, I'm going against what even "They" said at their concert. > I'm not going to vote, because I realize that my vote doesn't count. And if > I were to vote, I'd vote for Nader only because he actually does care about > my generation. Bush and Gore can suck it, because those two have their > thumbs stuck so far up each others asses it's not even funny. Anyway, I'm > done with my ranting and raving for now. > > Mike Stabile > > "Fight the power!" > > "The very existence of flame-throwers proves that some time, somewhere, > someone said to themselves, 'You know, I want to set those people over there > on fire, but I'm just not close enough to get the job done.' " - George Carlin Recheck your history there. Prior to the election, a phone poll was taken indicating Dewey had beaten Truman. The pollsters were so confident that the now-famous headline "DEWEY DEFEATS TRUMAN" was printed on... what was it? ... some paper. Anyway, in the battle between Cleveland and Harrison, Harrison got the popular vote, but because of electoral distribution, Cleveland ended up President. As a side note, Ralph Nader wants to get rid of the electoral college. But please, please don't split the liberal vote. Vote Gore. Gore/Lieberman 2000! Polaris "Don't think. Feel. It's like a finger pointing a way to the moon. Don't look at the finger or you will miss out on all that heavenly glory." -Bruce Lee "I'm not even supposed to be here today!" -Dante Hicks "I know how hard it is to put food on your family." -George W. Bush ------------------------------ From: Matt James Message-Id: <200011061709.MAA01237@fellspt.charm.net> Subject: Re: TMBG: Voting, is it our responsibility??? Date: Mon, 6 Nov 2000 12:09:41 -0500 (EST) Remember that the Presidential election system is a summary roll-up type voting system. The popular vote in each state will end up with the Electoral votes. If the majority of voters in your state voted for Nader, then the Green party electors would get all of the Electoral Votes for that state (except in certain instances in Maine and Nebraska who don't work on a popular vote electoral system, but a district system where more than one party can get electoral votes, something they're thinking of doing in Virginia to attract Presidential candidates). All of these electoral votes are rolled-up to a total of all the states. Remember, the electoral votes go to electors of that party that won, so if Nader got the majority vote in your state, a Green party elector would place his electoral votes in for Nader. Also, if 5% of the entire amount of votes goes to a third or indenpendent party, the Federal gov't is required to give that party federal matching funds in the 2004 election (in Virginia, the third party candidate would have to achieve 10% of the total Virginia votes). So if you were a third party die-hard you might want to vote for your candidate anyway. Of course, if you were in say Oregon or Washington or a similar state a Nader vote could actually give Bush the electoral votes, because of syphoned votes taken away from Gore. In states like Virginia that are heavily Republican, except in certain small areas, a vote for Nader might not hurt Gore's chances and may not guarantee Bush's election. But anyway, there are some things to think about. So there's not really a reason not to vote, whether it's to reach the 5% or to keep someone out of office that you don't want in there and/or to get the right guy into office. The local and state elections are rather different from the Presidential one so I'd agree with the guy who said to go to vote for them if no one else. That's about all I have to say, Matt > > Okay, here's how I look at voting: > > With all this talk about Gore, Bush, and Nader, I have just one theory. What > the hell is the point of voting? There's this wonderful **cough, cough** > thing called "The Electoral College". Most people think that they follow > popular vote, when in fact they don't. Grant it, the have for the most part > in the past, but they did screw up once (Dewey vs. Truman). Truman lost > popular vote, but the electoral college voted him into office anyway. If no > one were to vote this Tuesday, the E.C. would put whomever they wanted into > office. Therefore, I'm going against what even "They" said at their concert. > I'm not going to vote, because I realize that my vote doesn't count. And if > I were to vote, I'd vote for Nader only because he actually does care about > my generation. Bush and Gore can suck it, because those two have their > thumbs stuck so far up each others asses it's not even funny. Anyway, I'm > done with my ranting and raving for now. > > Mike Stabile > > "Fight the power!" > > "The very existence of flame-throwers proves that some time, somewhere, > someone said to themselves, 'You know, I want to set those people over there > on fire, but I'm just not close enough to get the job done.' " - George Carlin > ------------------------------ From: MsTanbul@aol.com Message-ID: Date: Mon, 6 Nov 2000 13:24:56 EST Subject: Re: TMBG: Re: Voting, is it our responsibility??? Well, there's this : 1800-1 vote gives Thomas Jefferson the presidency over Aaron Burr. 1839-1 vote wins the Massachusetts governorship for Marcus Morton. 1868-1 vote saves Andrew Johnson's presidency. 1941-1 vote strengthens selective service before World War II. 1960-1 vote per precinct gives JFK the presidency. 2000-1 vote, your vote, can make the difference November 7th. In America, 1 VOTE DOES MATTER. Be the ONE. And you can forward the following to all the right people ;) To: All American Registered Voters > >From: League Of American Voters > > > >Subject: Important Voting Change Notice: > > > >Due to an anticipated voter turnout much larger > >than originally expected, the polling facilities may > >not be able to handle the load all at once. > > > >Therefore, Democrats and Independents are requested to vote on > >Tuesday, November 7, and Republicans on > >Wednesday, November 8. Please pass this message along > >and help us to make sure that nobody gets left out. ------------------------------ From: LimeZinger@aol.com Message-ID: <92.c167545.27385333@aol.com> Date: Mon, 6 Nov 2000 13:32:19 EST Subject: non TMBG: Re: Voting, is it our responsibility??? In a message dated 11/6/00 2:26:19 PM, MsTanbul@aol.com writes: >In America, 1 VOTE DOES MATTER. Be the ONE. > >And you can forward the following to all the right people ;) > i'm bad at keeping up with the list, but i coincidentally saw this thread in my box after sending this to someone else... so i'll put it here, too. fellow new york state residents, this is for you: i got the awesomest piece of mail today. i have to re-hook-up my scanner just to scan it. it's got -- wait, i'm sitting on the mail -- it's a large folded glossy thing, 4 pages, about how we have to vote against hillary. it's *great*. it's got a picture of hillary's face superimposed over the white house, and it says: "hillary clinton has a plan. and you're part of it. she thinks she can move to new york, put on a yankees hat, and get elected u.s. senator. make no mistake about it -- hillary wants to be president. and she's couting on you letting it happen by not voting this year. unless you want another president clinton in the white house... vote on november 7th against hillary clinton." this is *so* going on my wall. sarah http://brazen.org/starcookie "bite me, metallica." - zorak, space ghost coast to coast ------------------------------ From: "Nathan Mulac DeHoff" Subject: Re: TMBG: Re: Voting, is it our responsibility??? Date: Mon, 06 Nov 2000 18:34:32 GMT Message-ID: MsTanbul: >Well, there's this : > >1800-1 vote gives Thomas Jefferson the presidency over Aaron Burr. > >1839-1 vote wins the Massachusetts governorship for Marcus Morton. > >1868-1 vote saves Andrew Johnson's presidency. > >1941-1 vote strengthens selective service before World War II. > >1960-1 vote per precinct gives JFK the presidency. > >2000-1 vote, your vote, can make the difference November 7th. The first robot president, John Quincy Adding Machine, also won by one vote. So did the head of Richard Nixon, for that matter. -- Eat your broccoli, Nathan DinnerBell@tmbg.org http://www.geocities.com/fablesto/ _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at http://profiles.msn.com. ------------------------------ From: GoodOmenz@aol.com Message-ID: Date: Mon, 6 Nov 2000 14:29:26 EST Subject: TMBG: Re: tmbg-list Digest #35-6 In a message dated 11/6/00 7:08:01 AM, owner-tmbg-digest@tmbg.org writes: <> ok, im getting very sick of this attitude. i hardly ever write to this list so i appologize that i'm doing so in such an unrelated manner. you should probably skip it. first, i do believe that the electoral collage should be abolished (sometimes whole states are harder to bribe than individuals) but you still ought to go out and vote. something like only 20% of people under 30 vote. actually, i totally don't remember the original numbers but it was depressing. my boyfriend has the same lame-ass excuse for not voting. but the electoral college whine whine whine. what, do you really think your protesting something? do you really think anyone cares if you don't vote? are you trying to piss off your parents? please, just get a tattoo or dye your hair purple or something. this whole general attitude of apathy and then whinning annoys the hell out of me. if you don't vote you can't complain and lets say that the electoral college and the voting public disagree. at the very worst something very intersting will happen. riots hopefully. don't you want to contribute to that? another reason that the electoral college was created (besides communication problems back in the old days) was because the govt thought people were too dumb to get out and vote for themselves. i have to say that people are probably a lot dumber than they were then and half of them probably don't even know what the electoral college is so they'll be very surprised/outraged. trust me, it'll be fun. im ready for some looting (new years was such a bust) second, if youre pro-nader like you claim to be, then your vote DOES count. the more votes nader gets the more funding he can get later blah blah blah. so being pro-nader is the one reason you SHOULD go vote. but im not saying that im pro-nader third, the presidential elections aren't the only thing we're voting on. i have no idea where you live but i bet your also voting for senators or congrespeople or something. there's no electoral college for that. so unless your going to go start a revolution of your own, which would be a very admirable thing to do, vote. or leave the country and yes, tmbg still rock plenty hard god bless 'em. maybe if bush does win, like its kind of looking like he will, we'll finally get good punk bands again. kids growing up without fear of the atom bomb hanging over their heads just can't rock ~liz ------------------------------ Message-ID: <004201c04849$93e75e00$10450241@wall1.pa.home.com> From: "Jon" Subject: TMBG: Re: Voting, is it our responsibility??? Date: Mon, 6 Nov 2000 15:30:40 -0800 (I forgot to send this E-mail to the entire list last night when I wrote it, so I am sending it out again.) You know what Mike? People like you really get me going. So here I go. When are you going to grow up and realize how important your vote really is? Granted, in the long run it does not have actually much importance in that your ONE vote will not choose the president. However, it is still an important vote, along with all the other votes. Your vote MEANS something in this country. It does not only show that you take an active role in your government and your country's politics, but that you support all of the people that have worked hard, fought, or even died for you to allow you to have that vote. The popular vote DOES matter Mike. It chooses WHICH electoral college will represent your state. When you pull the lever for a candidate, read carefully. It should say something along the lines of "Voters for George W. Bush", not just, "George W. Bush." Whichever candidate receives the most votes in one state, that candidates college of voters will vote this December in the Electoral College vote; the vote that chooses the president. So yes, Mike, your vote does matter. You are voting for the electoral college of your choice, with the knowledge that all of the members of that particular college will be voting for their candidate; the one you support. Now aside from the technical aspects of your votes importance, there are other reasons you should vote. Did you know that out of the 27 Democratic Nations in existence today we come in dead last in voter turnout for elections. Only 45% of U.S. citizens show up who will represent them in Local, State, and National Government positions. This is absolutely pathetic. Number 26 on the list, one notch above us, has 55% voting percentage; that's ten points ahead of us! The most important reason you should vote, however, is because you CAN! Mike, do you realize that in the majority of nations today people can not even vote for their leaders, and here you are complaining about the fact that you CAN vote! That is ridiculous. This is such an incredible country we live in. It does have its faults, Mike; many of them. I could write a 20 page paper on what is the matter with this country. Despite these faults, we still have the highest Quality of Living ratings in the entire world. In such a great country where we are provided for so much and so efficiently, I can not see any reason for you not to be active in your government. Heck, I am only 17 years old. I can not WAIT to be able to vote in the next election. Any chance you have to become involved in your government, you should take it. Write letters to the newspaper, write to your state representatives, go to local government meetings...but most importantly, VOTE! It is such a waste when someone does not vote, and it angers me very much to see such intelligent people, as you all are, wasting such an awesome opportunity to get involved, just because they do not think it matters. Finally Mike, I'd like to point out two things you said in your E-Mail. First, about Bush and Gore, you said "Bush and Gore can suck it, because those two have their thumbs stuck so far up each others asses it's not even funny." Then, later on, you said "Fight the power!" Mike, how the heck do you fight the power if you do not vote?! If you would like to see Nader in the White House, then go vote for him! You can not expect to change a spoiled system by ignoring it, just like you can not fix a car engine by letting it sit in the driveway! You have to make an effort to change things, to make things better, to show your country that you care. Mike, I agree with you. I dislike Gore and Bush very much. I do not feel as if they truly represent me. It seems they are only pandering towards the groups of people that will be voting; baby boomers and the elderly. Candidates know that kids in the teens and 20's are less likely to vote, so they ignore us. They avoid topics which concern us and move onto issues which concern the voters; our parents and grandparents. This trend of voter pandering will not end until the young people of America vote and show Washington that we DO care what goes on. If we fail to do this, Mike, you can forget about voting for a politician that will take on issues which concern you once elected because you will not be able to find one. Mike, it is time to get with the program. Go vote on Tuesday for all of us kids who can not vote. If Gore and Bush are not going to represent us, than you need to. You need to show that you care about your generation by voting. "Fight the power, vote!" ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Sunday, November 05, 2000 9:46 PM Subject: TMBG: Voting, is it our responsibility??? > Okay, here's how I look at voting: > > With all this talk about Gore, Bush, and Nader, I have just one theory. What > the hell is the point of voting? There's this wonderful **cough, cough** > thing called "The Electoral College". Most people think that they follow > popular vote, when in fact they don't. Grant it, the have for the most part > in the past, but they did screw up once (Dewey vs. Truman). Truman lost > popular vote, but the electoral college voted him into office anyway. If no > one were to vote this Tuesday, the E.C. would put whomever they wanted into > office. Therefore, I'm going against what even "They" said at their concert. > I'm not going to vote, because I realize that my vote doesn't count. And if > I were to vote, I'd vote for Nader only because he actually does care about > my generation. Bush and Gore can suck it, because those two have their > thumbs stuck so far up each others asses it's not even funny. Anyway, I'm > done with my ranting and raving for now. > > Mike Stabile > > "Fight the power!" > > "The very existence of flame-throwers proves that some time, somewhere, > someone said to themselves, 'You know, I want to set those people over there > on fire, but I'm just not close enough to get the job done.' " - George Carlin ------------------------------ Message-ID: <3A071D64.C0A9CE20@st.com> Date: Mon, 06 Nov 2000 14:06:44 -0700 From: Russ Josephson Organization: STMicroelectronics, Inc Subject: TMBG: Re: tmbg-list Digest #35-6 "owner-tmbg-digest/OU=internet/DD.RFC-822=owner-tmbg-digest"@tmbg.org@eux220.sgp.st.com wrote: > What > the hell is the point of voting? There's this wonderful **cough, cough** > thing called "The Electoral College". Most people think that they follow > popular vote, when in fact they don't. Okay, I'll say this just once: The US electoral college consists of one elector for every senator and congressman. That means that each state gets at least 3 votes in the electoral college (Wyoming). The bigger states get more votes (California). And each state's electoral college votes all go to the winner of the popular vote IN THAT STATE. So it's possible, but not likely, that the canditate who gets the most popular votes NATIONWIDE will not win the most electoral college votes. So your vote DOES count! Don't let everyone else decide who will run the country. I'm voting for Bush, he's the one who will do the least damage to the country, and he's more of a centrist. Gore is far too extreme the the left. Nader's whole political theory is (corporations = evil). Hey, we could run the country with a pull-string Nader doll ;) ======================================================================== Russ Josephson http://www.geocities.com/russj_yah Berthoud, Colorado, USA mailto:russj@juno.com "... not everyone is passionate about music ..." -- Joe Jackson "I took off the intellectuals, and put on There May Be Giants" -- Gloria "It is by grace that we are saved, after all we can do" -- 2 Nephi 25:23 ======================================================================== ------------------------------ Message-Id: <4.2.0.58.20001106172600.0178f008@oscar.cc.gatech.edu> Date: Mon, 06 Nov 2000 17:46:47 -0500 From: the hanged man Subject: Re: non-TMBG: Re: Voting, is it our responsibility??? At 05:44 AM 11/6/2000 -0600, Polaris wrote: >As a side note, Ralph Nader wants to get rid of the electoral college. But >please, please don't split the liberal vote. Vote Gore. As far as my take on voting goes, the only wasted vote is a vote for one of the two major parties. They are more alike than dissimilar, especially compared with the third-party candidates. We could lump them all together and make the "Status Quo" party, and it wouldn't make a heck of a lot of difference. So I say, if you have liberal leanings, vote for Nader. If you hate bloated social welfare and big government in general, vote Browne (Libertarian). If you're a fascist, vote Buchanan (oops, i was trying to be impartial. oh, well.) The Democrats and Republicans both poorly represent me, and most other young people I know, yet people don't want to throw away their vote. I say make your vote really count by showing that you don't approve of a two-party system that leaves most voters without anyone interesting to vote for. Heck, write in Jesse Ventura if you don't like any of the candidates. He'd be one heck of a president. ;) -- -=Matt Brown=- GaTech cs/phys undergrad | web: http://thehangedman.digitaldriveway.com | "Every Day is a Good Day" email: thehangedman@death-star.com | -Zen Proverb AIM: THM42 ICQ: 10933909 | ------------------------------ Message-ID: <002f01c04849$cb20a2a0$03bafea9@tim2> From: "Tim Clark" Subject: Re: non-TMBG: Re: Voting, is it our responsibility??? Date: Mon, 6 Nov 2000 18:32:11 -0500 > At 05:44 AM 11/6/2000 -0600, Polaris wrote: > >As a side note, Ralph Nader wants to get rid of the electoral college. But > >please, please don't split the liberal vote. Vote Gore. Yeah, we need someone who supports the right to take the feet of "fetus" inside his mother's womb, then pull the fetus out completely except for the head and "after this partial delivery, scissors are forced into the base of the skull and a suction is used to remove the brains." It sickens me to think that this right would be taken away from American citizens! Count me as one who stands up for the right to force scissors into a the base of a fetus' skull during any stage of the pregnancy. If you are like me, and are not bothered by the feet of a fetus kicking as scissors are inserted into its head, (before forcepts collapse its skull), then please join with me for Gore. Go Gore Go! ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 6 Nov 2000 17:44:21 -0600 From: "Polaris" Message-ID: <8u7fm9$65f$1@ussenterprise.ufp.org> Organization: They Might Be Giants, Unofficially http://www.tmbg.org Subject: Re: non-TMBG: Re: Voting, is it our responsibility??? "Tim Clark" wrote in message news:002f01c04849$cb20a2a0$03bafea9@tim2... > > At 05:44 AM 11/6/2000 -0600, Polaris wrote: > > >As a side note, Ralph Nader wants to get rid of the electoral college. > But > > >please, please don't split the liberal vote. Vote Gore. > > Yeah, we need someone who supports the right to take the feet of "fetus" > inside his mother's womb, then pull the fetus out completely except for the > head and "after this partial delivery, scissors are forced into the base of > the skull and a suction is used to remove the brains." It sickens me to > think that this right would be taken away from American citizens! Count me > as one who stands up for the right to force scissors into a the base of a > fetus' skull during any stage of the pregnancy. If you are like me, and are > not bothered by the feet of a fetus kicking as scissors are inserted into > its head, (before forcepts collapse its skull), then please join with me for > Gore. Go Gore Go! > Abortion is evil, yes. Partial-birth abortion is a particularly gruesome form. But look at the records of Gore and Bush. Gore started out a lifer from Tennessee, something he's sure to return to. Bush has shied away from stating anything on the subject. On top of that, wake up. Think about it. Do you honestly think the Republicans want to stop abortions with their legislation? They want to make it illegal for THE POOR to have abortions, and nobody would adopt one of "those" babies, while THE RICH would have abortions left and right, completely immune! HOLD EVERYBODY TO THE SAME STANDARD! Ideally, I'd say "Vote Nader!" but the race is too close to risk that. Vote Gore. Gore/Lieberman 2000! Polaris "When you reach the top of the mountain, keep climbing." -Zen Proverb "You can't fall off a mountain, you fool!" -Jack Kerouac "I'm not even supposed to be here today!" -Dante Hicks "I know how hard it is to put food on your family." -George W. Bush ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 6 Nov 2000 18:54:39 -0500 (EST) From: Kevin Keeler Subject: Re: non-TMBG: Re: Voting, is it our responsibility??? Message-ID: > At 05:44 AM 11/6/2000 -0600, Polaris wrote: > >As a side note, Ralph Nader wants to get rid of the electoral college. But > >please, please don't split the liberal vote. Vote Gore. Yah, no one likes political discussions, but some "americans" are really starting to piss me off. "why vote for nader? he's never going to win." This is voting, not gambling. there is no penalty for not being on the winning "team." Is this some macho thing that's developed? of all the stupid reasoning. VOTE FOR WHO YOU WANT TO BE PRESIDENT. "a vote for nader is a vote for bush" no, actually a vote for nader is a vote for nader, while a vote for bush is a vote for bush. a = a, b = b. even tho you may have learned this in algebra, its still not a difficult concept. do you not find it odd that this concept was popularized by joseph leiberman? the democratic VP candidate? talk about conflict of interests. "don't split the liberal vote" this seems to imply that gore and nader are similar in their views. i'd say its much more sensible to say 'dont split the bushgore vote' this is the race thats running neck and neckj. i have trouble even conceiving how one could support one of these fellas strongly and not the other. www.billionairesforbushorgore.com And, yah, i'm sure its rpetty obvious who I'm voting for. i figure if Al Gore really wanted my vote, he'd adopt some of the policies that make me favor the candidate I do. as it is he is not even working for, nor close to earning, my vote. from what i have read--which i take with a grain of salt--supporters of ralph nader are nearly evenly comprised of would-be bush and would-be gore supporters (with an admitted slight leaning towards gore). hell, if nothing else you can't argue that a viable third party (ergo, more choice) in the future is a bad thing. I support anyone who is honestly voting for who they want to be president. and if you're undecided, or weren't planning on voting, go anyway and vote nader. i'll hold a special place for you in my heart. always more to say, but who cares. --kevin apologies to those under 18 or who are not located in the ol' USA ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 6 Nov 2000 18:57:38 -0500 (EST) From: Kevin Keeler Subject: Re: non-TMBG: Re: Voting, is it our responsibility??? Message-ID: > > Ideally, I'd say "Vote Nader!" but the race is too close to risk that. Vote > Gore. AUUUGGGHHHH!!!! i cry for your soul, you misguided fool. if you'd said "i like gore" i would have left you alone. but you admit that you have no respect for democratic ideals or your slef-respect. you sir, are a pawn. a sham. a dupe. sleep easy. --kevin ------------------------------ Message-ID: <005701c04851$6e382ce0$03bafea9@tim2> From: "Tim Clark" Subject: Re: non-TMBG: Re: Voting, is it our responsibility??? Date: Mon, 6 Nov 2000 19:26:53 -0500 > Abortion is evil, yes. Partial-birth abortion is a particularly gruesome > form. But look at the records of Gore and Bush. Gore started out a lifer > from Tennessee, something he's sure to return to. Bush has shied away from > stating anything on the subject. You're voting for Gore because you think he'll return to that? Wasn't he the one who gave a standing O when the partial birth abortion ban veto went through? (That is when Clinton vetoed a law that WOULD have banned it). That's why I'm Gore baby Gore! Bush threatened to outlaw partial birth abortion! http://www.abortiontv.com (Love this station!) ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 6 Nov 2000 18:47:28 -0600 From: "Polaris" Message-ID: <8u7jck$8m5$1@ussenterprise.ufp.org> Organization: They Might Be Giants, Unofficially http://www.tmbg.org Subject: Re: non-TMBG: Re: Voting, is it our responsibility??? "Kevin Keeler" wrote in message news:Pine.LNX.4.21.0011061855280.17551-100000@uwns.underworld.net... > > > > > Ideally, I'd say "Vote Nader!" but the race is too close to risk that. Vote > > Gore. > > AUUUGGGHHHH!!!! i cry for your soul, you misguided fool. > > > > if you'd said "i like gore" i would have left you alone. but you admit > that you have no respect for democratic ideals or your slef-respect. you > sir, are a pawn. a sham. a dupe. sleep easy. > > --kevin > i like nader ok happy now i feel like ee cummings A vote for Nader is a vote against the greed and corruption of the Republicrats, and at the same time progressive ideals. But all that would be crushed once the Republicratic media started painting Nader as the man who brought you Bush. It would kill him next time. Vote Gore now, Nader in 2004. And remember to vote Atreides in November 10,191. Gore/Lieberman 2000! VOTE TOMORROW, DAMMIT! Polaris "When you reach the top of the mountain, keep climbing." -Zen Proverb "A [follower] should practice charity without regard to appearances, for charity is after all just a word. ... In such cases his merit is incalculable." -Siddharta Gautama(the Sakyamuni Buddha), Diamond Sutra "I'm not even supposed to be here today!" -Dante Hicks "I know how hard it is to put food on your family." -George W. Bush(only 2 days left of this quote!) ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 6 Nov 2000 18:53:27 -0600 From: "Polaris" Message-ID: <8u7jnt$8va$1@ussenterprise.ufp.org> Organization: They Might Be Giants, Unofficially http://www.tmbg.org Subject: Re: non-TMBG: Re: Voting, is it our responsibility??? "Kevin Keeler" wrote in message news:Pine.LNX.4.21.0011061839260.17551-100000@uwns.underworld.net... > > > > At 05:44 AM 11/6/2000 -0600, Polaris wrote: > > >As a side note, Ralph Nader wants to get rid of the electoral > college. But > > >please, please don't split the liberal vote. Vote Gore. > > > Yah, no one likes political discussions, but some "americans" are really > starting to piss me off. > > "why vote for nader? he's never going to win." > This is voting, not gambling. there is no penalty for not being on the > winning "team." Is this some macho thing that's developed? of all the > stupid reasoning. VOTE FOR WHO YOU WANT TO BE PRESIDENT. > > "a vote for nader is a vote for bush" > no, actually a vote for nader is a vote for nader, while a vote for bush > is a vote for bush. a = a, b = b. even tho you may have learned this in > algebra, its still not a difficult concept. do you not find it odd that > this concept was popularized by joseph leiberman? the democratic VP > candidate? talk about conflict of interests. > > "don't split the liberal vote" > this seems to imply that gore and nader are similar in their views. i'd > say its much more sensible to say 'dont split the bushgore vote' this is > the race thats running neck and neckj. i have trouble even conceiving how > one could support one of these fellas strongly and not the > other. www.billionairesforbushorgore.com > > And, yah, i'm sure its rpetty obvious who I'm voting for. i figure if Al > Gore really wanted my vote, he'd adopt some of the policies that make me > favor the candidate I do. as it is he is not even working for, nor close > to earning, my vote. > > from what i have read--which i take with a grain of salt--supporters of > ralph nader are nearly evenly comprised of would-be bush and would-be gore > supporters (with an admitted slight leaning towards gore). > > hell, if nothing else you can't argue that a viable third party (ergo, > more choice) in the future is a bad thing. > > I support anyone who is honestly voting for who they want to be > president. and if you're undecided, or weren't planning on voting, go > anyway and vote nader. i'll hold a special place for you in my heart. > > always more to say, but who cares. > --kevin > > apologies to those under 18 or who are not located in the ol' USA > > On a purely unrelated note, I'm a shade or two under 18 and originally Canadian. A friend of mine has a wierd theory concerning the election. According to him, every President elected on a year ending in 0 has died in office. Therefore, he says, we should look at the Vice Presidents. By his plan, Cheney is better than the conservative censorship freak Lieberman. However, I would much rather have Winona LaDuke. Just wondering, does anybody think Tom Laughlin should run again, maybe with Delores Taylor as a running mate? http://www.billyjack.com Gore/Lieberman 2000! VOTE TOMORROW, DAMMIT! Polaris "When you reach the top of the mountain, keep climbing." -Zen Proverb "A [follower] should practice charity without regard to appearances, for charity is after all just a word. ... In such cases his merit is incalculable." -Siddharta Gautama(the Sakyamuni Buddha), Diamond Sutra "I'm not even supposed to be here today!" -Dante Hicks "I know how hard it is to put food on your family." -George W. Bush(only 2 days left of this quote!) ------------------------------ Message-ID: <3A0752A5.44C3@bgnet.bgsu.edu> Date: Mon, 06 Nov 2000 19:53:58 -0500 From: "K.C." Subject: Re: non-TMBG: Re: Voting, is it our responsibility??? Just a comment on the complaints regarding the two major parties. Remember that the reason they seem so similar is because they are supposed to be. If you've had a political science class, or studied political parties, you know what a "catch-all" party is. That would be the Dems and the GOP, tremendous examples. They try to get as much vote as possible by appealing to everyone they can. That's why when something seems to trouble a lot of people, or the news/polls portray that, the candidates jump right on it. They don't hold as strictly to any ideological tenets. And in an electoral system like ours, they arise. If you don't like catch-all parties, well I suggest you start a movement to change our electoral system. And if you are sick of the "status quo" parties, then remember what most of the institutions of American government are designed to do: maintain the status quo or change it only incrementally. Our system is not designed to allow radical change. All them checks and balances are great, if you want checks on effective government. -- K.C. Kless "...I am a snake head eating the head on the opposite side..." Commissioner, Triumvir Fantasy Sports Campaign Manager, OUK 2000 docworm@tmbg.org, docworm@theavalanche.net ------------------------------ From: MsTanbul@aol.com Message-ID: <49.31e2fb7.2738bc7c@aol.com> Date: Mon, 6 Nov 2000 21:01:32 EST Subject: Re: non-TMBG: Re: Voting, is it our responsibility??? In a message dated 11/6/00 6:55:07 PM, insanity@uwns.underworld.net writes: << "a vote for nader is a vote for bush" >> a cartoon this weekand had W saying the above quote, followed by "So I'm going to vote for Nader" A vote for Nader DOES help bush, even if it isn't FOR him if it is from a person who would otherwise vote for Gore. Why do you think Bush supporters were paying for Nader ads? ------------------------------ From: MsTanbul@aol.com Message-ID: <33.c6999d9.2738be6c@aol.com> Date: Mon, 6 Nov 2000 21:09:48 EST Subject: Re: non-TMBG: Re: Voting, is it our responsibility??? In a message dated 11/6/00 7:50:37 PM, polariswm@hotmail.com writes: << Vote Gore now, Nader in 2004. And remember to vote Atreides in November 10,191. >> I think it will take longer than 4 years. It needs to start small. Nader himself should know this. I hope he runs for congress in 2 years. Start by getting Green party candidates in Congress... then a viable candidate will probably be available maybe 2008 or 2012. Until there's a viable green party candidate, my heart DOES tell me to vote Democrat. ------------------------------ From: "Nicholas Wolf" Subject: NON-TMBG: Bush? Date: Mon, 6 Nov 2000 22:10:43 -0700 Message-ID: On the lighter side, in the same fashion two related people of the same stature are usually labeled (like if my wife and I were both doctors, we'd be the Doctors Wolf, or like the Brothers Meat Puppets), if Bush is elected, we'll have the Presidents Bush. Good to see the country'll be focussed on a slightly different part of the President's genitalia this go around, hmm? :0) Signed, Nicholas Wolf - TMBG Ambassador to the State of New Mexico Nader supporter who will vote Gore just to keep Bush out of office ------------------------------ End of tmbg-list Digest #35-7 *****************************