Errors-To: owner-tmbg-digest@tmbg.org Reply-To: tmbg-digest@tmbg.org Sender: owner-tmbg-digest@tmbg.org Precedence: bulk From: owner-tmbg-digest@tmbg.org To: tmbg-digest@tmbg.org Subject: tmbg-list Digest #37-6 tmbg-list Digest, Volume 37, Number 6 Saturday, 6 January 2001 Today's Topics: TMBG: Unlimited griping Re: TMBG: The Unlimited Truth and Robert Lowell TMBG: TMBG UnLtd 1 Review Pt 1(was "The Unlimited Truth") Re: TMBG: Unlimited griping Re: TMBG: The Unlimited Truth TMBG: Re: I've Got a Fang Re: TMBG: TMBG UnLtd 1 Review Pt 1(was "The Unlimited Truth") TMBG: Factory Showroom Re: TMBG: Factory Showroom RE: TMBG: Factory Showroom RE: TMBG: Factory Showroom RE: TMBG: Factory Showroom TMBG: TMBG on ET Administrivia: If you wish to unsubscribe from this mailing send mail to tmbg-digest-request@tmbg.org for instructions on how to be automatically removed. --------------------------------------------------------------------- The views expressed herein are those of the individual authors. --------------------------------------------------------------------- tmbg-list is digested with Digest 3.5b (John Relph ). ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Erich Cannon" Subject: TMBG: Unlimited griping Date: Fri, 5 Jan 2001 01:22:41 -0800 Message-ID: Nathan Said: > It matters because a CD is a hard copy, and it doesn't take up any space on > your computer, and you get album art and liner notes with it. If these > things don't matter to you, then I suppose it isn't important at all. > -- I knew that was coming. So what about liner notes and cover art? When you listen to your cd do you look at the liner notes and cover art EVERY TIME? I dont know how this debate can really end but I think that TMBG just cant win. They tried to beat the napster wars by offering other means of mp3z. The opputunity to recieve brand new music free, then the oppurtunity for even more new music for a small price. Serves them right that some of you hate this. How dare they. How dare they award us internet fans by giving us something more then those who arent as computer savvy. I know I know how unfair for those who dont use the internet. Well heck they know there not online. Everyone knows mp3z are on the internet when they are ready for them they'll come. But boy TMBG should really stop this flooding of music. we shouldnt be on this e-mail group complaining about slight indecrepensies on the program or grammer in the text we should be complaining about how there hasnt been a studio album since 'Factory'. They are just wasting our time with this arent they? I think i'll write emusic right now and tell them were just not interested in all this new music EVERY FREAKIN MONTH!!!!!!!!!! And to quote the simpsons "In case you didn't notice I was being sarcastic" Erich ------------------------------ From: Matt James Message-Id: <200101051500.KAA28410@fellspt.charm.net> Subject: Re: TMBG: The Unlimited Truth and Robert Lowell Date: Fri, 5 Jan 2001 10:00:01 -0500 (EST) > > Well, "not getting their money's worth" can be taken two different ways. > One is that, if emusic said that subscribers were going to get something, > and they weren't given it, then the subscribers aren't getting what they > paid for. Some people are afraid of this, and understandably so, but I > don't see emusic as having gone back on their word yet. Nonetheless, I > still think that people "aren't getting their money's worth" in the sense > that emusic is overcharging. Well, I suppose this is a point of some > contention, since subscribers DO obtain access to the entire emusic catalog. > Perhaps my complaint is not simply that the service costs too much, but > that there's no way to get only TMBG. This isn't to say that, if I > subscribed, I wouldn't download some non-TMBG stuff, because I would. If > they made a way to get JUST the TMBG, and lowered the price, though, I would > probably have signed up some time ago. The fact that you can only get it as > a package deal really complicates matters. > Strangely, I don't ever recall Emusic stating that you could get other music from their website for free when you sign up for TMBG Unlimited. I truely believed that you could only download TMBG music. It seems to me that others thought the same thing although I could be wrong. I only found out that you could download other mp3s from someone on this group. Given that, it does sweeten the pot a bit as well as the fleece and the signed CD. I do agree that 5 downloadable songs are worth $4-7 at best, considering that an EP on CD these days cost $7. But if you think about it, for an extra $30-40 you're getting the other music, fleece and the CD and that's worth it for me. Sure, these were supposed to be extra, free giveaways but I still can't complain, I think it's good value. > >I also am not sure I agree with you about whether this is a good format for > >getting new > >TMBG music. It is difficult for people without computers, but you could > >say almost the same > >thing for people without CD players. Sure CD players have been around a > >long time and are > >cheaper but music format changes are going to happen and the Internet is a > >very popular medium > >for most folks, just look at Napster. > > I still don't know if you can say "most folks." Sure, a LOT of people have > computers, and maybe it'll eventually reach the point where computerized > music becomes the standard. I don't think that's come about yet, though. > As for your point about people without CD players, well, looking at it from > that point of view, I would say that CD is still a better format, because > it's cheaper. I don't mean the CD's are cheaper, but a CD player is MUCH > cheaper than a computer. Therefore, if I were in the odd position of only > having an eight-track player, and not being interested in anything but > having TMBG music, I'd definitely go for the CD's over the computer. > TMBG recognized that there were a lot of Internet fans out there. Heck, everyone on this group either owns a computer or uses a computer and will most likely have a computer sometime in the future. If you really are so out of touch with the computer scene then you won't even know about TMBG Unlimited and you're really not missing anything. Ok, that's not the best argument in the world but the fact is there are a lot of fans of TMBG with computers. Combine that with the fact that TMBG didn't have a record label for a long time and you can see that they were in dire straits for releasing anything on CD anyway. That's where Emusic comes into play and distributes their stuff for them. I don't think you can really blame them for making the best of it. In the end at least a good amount of people can get TMBG music on a regular basis, and boy you can't get much more regular than new releases every month. > >But the thing about all this that really hits me is the ease through > >which TMBG can record and distribute songs. All they need to do is write > >the songs, plop them > >onto computer format and wham, they can create tons of songs and distribute > >them to an unlimited > >number of people in the blink of an eye. There's no distribution costs > >that goes along with a > >material item such as a CD. I'd be interested to hear what might be a > >better way for TMBG to > >do this s easily? > > I don't think there IS a better way for them to do this easily, but there's > still the question as to whether it would be better for TMBG not to release > those songs. It's good for those of us who have computers and money, > because we get to hear songs that might otherwise have never seen the light > of day. Before, however, it was never really expensive to be a TMBG fan. > Sure, there have been a few out-of-print EP's that that could generally only > be purchased for outrageous amounts of money, but there were only a few > songs on these. The majority of TMBG's catalog could be heard simply by > buying their albums, and maybe occasionally calling up Dial-A-Song. Now, > however, TMBG and emusic are essentially saying, "This stuff is for rich > fans with computers and credit cards. Everyone else can keep on waiting for > us to put out an album on CD." This is good business sense, but it seems > unfair to those people who have bought TMBG's CD albums, but just can't > afford this Unlimited stuff. (I'm not saying that I'm one of these people; > I'm sure I could subscribe without having to eat out of trash cans for the > rest of the year. $120 is still a lot of money, though, and it might be > even more to other fans.) Hey, believe me, if you're eating out of trash cans you're not buying anything, I don't care if it's mp3s, CDs, vinyl, nothing. But I think you're talking about a somewhat fine line between someone who can buy a CD player and someone who can buy a computer. If you can purchase a CD player you're probably not so destitute that you can't buy a computer within at least a few years. And hell if you don't have a computer you're probably predesposed to having a friend who can burn you a CD or put the songs on tape. I don't think Richie Rich is the only one who can get a computer or a credit card or at least know someone who has these things. In the end, I think it would come down to the XTC rule if TMBG had not hooked up with Emusic, it would be 5 years between releases, Factory Showroom 1996 to the new CD 2001 and there'd be little or no releases of any kind in between. -Matt ------------------------------ Date: 05 Jan 2001 08:20:26 -0800 Message-ID: <-1233439671ggr@wlg.com> From: Bongo Subject: TMBG: TMBG UnLtd 1 Review Pt 1(was "The Unlimited Truth") General Purplefeet wrote that I wrote: >>Everyone is talking about what's available but few ever stop to discuss the >>actual songs. To which he wrote: >Why don't you start discussing them, then? Believe me, I've been meaning to. Kaylum took the words out of my mouth yesterday by writing: > What struck me about the >first batch of mp3's is how good Flans' tunes are, even stronger than >Linnell's tunes this time around. I really didn't like "I've Got a Fang" >much when I first heard it (seeing it performed live made me appreciate it a >lot more, tho), but I loved "Drink" and "Cyclops Rock" >instantly :) I can't remember the last time that I agreed with a post so thoroughly! Generally, I prefer Linnell tunes over Flans'. In fact, I think the Flans songs on Factory Showroom are what hurt the album. (I wish he would have pushed them over to Mono Puff.) Anyway, "Drink" and "Cyclops Rock" are the standouts of UnLtd#1 for me. "Fang" is cool but not as instantly catchy. And now for the song by song comments... but I only have time for one right now. By the way, I'm assuming the track order for this collection is intended to be as they show up on the emusic download menu: I'VE GOT A FANG DRINK CYCLOPS ROCK STORMY PINKNESS (LOVE VERSION) ROBERT LOWELL So that's the order I'm going in... 1. I'VE GOT A FANG This is one of those situations where I hear someone raving about a song I haven't heard yet and my expectations were high. I was hoping it was going to be something of "It's So Loud In Here" caliber but its not that *type* of song. Musically, its a bit minimal. Not that that's a bad thing. I don't rate songs on their complexity but on how they affect me overall. However, being that its the first song on the first installment of this series I was a little worried. I was afraid that the UnLtd tunes might just be off the cuff, throw aways that aren't good enough to be on the upcoming album. So far that's not the case. The first installment consist of top quality stuff. Like so many TMBG songs, FANG has thought provokingly, cryptic lyrics. I have no idea what the song is about. He talks about having a "fang" and compares it to one of those things you use to punch a hole in a can with. For awhile I thought he was a guy that carries one of those can-punchers things around and not actually someone with a fang in his mouth. But I changed my mind. Now I think maybe he's some guy into a goth look that literally has a fang in his mouth and his appearance disturbs people. But who knows! The rest to follow... -B O N G O ------------------------------ From: "General Purplefeet" Subject: Re: TMBG: Unlimited griping Date: Fri, 05 Jan 2001 18:48:02 -0000 Message-ID: Erich: >Nathan Said: > > > It matters because a CD is a hard copy, and it doesn't take up any space >on > > your computer, and you get album art and liner notes with it. If these > > things don't matter to you, then I suppose it isn't important at all. > > -- > > >I knew that was coming. So what about liner notes and cover art? When you >listen to your cd do you look at the liner notes and cover art EVERY TIME? Not every time, but that's not really relevant anyway. The point is that they're something you can get with a CD, but not with MP3's, making the MP3's not worth quite as much. >I dont know how this debate can really end but I think that TMBG just >cant >win. I don't think this debate is affecting TMBG at all. Even if a minimal amount of people sign up for Unlimited, it'll probably result in a profit. I doubt releasing tracks on emusic costs anywhere NEAR as much as putting them on CD. Essentially, TMBG has already won. As for the debate ending, I don't really care if it does, as long as it stays peaceful, and doesn't erupt into a flame war. >They tried to beat the napster wars by offering other means of mp3z. >The opputunity to recieve brand new music free, then the oppurtunity for >even more new music for a small price. But it's NOT a small price! Whether or not it's worth it is a matter of opinion, but I really don't see how you can get around the fact that $120 is a lot of money. >How dare they award us internet fans by giving us >something more then those who arent as computer savvy. I know I know how >unfair for those who dont use the internet. I'm not really sure why they SHOULD award Internet fans. Of course, that's not really what they're doing. It's just the end result. >But boy TMBG should really stop this flooding of music. we >shouldnt be on this e-mail group complaining about slight indecrepensies on >the program or grammer in the text we should be complaining about how there >hasnt been a studio album since 'Factory'. I HAVE complained about that, and I'm certainly not the only one. I understand that TMBG has had label problems, so I don't really blame them for delaying the album for so long, but it's still an annoyingly long wait. Besides, I seem to recall the Johns saying that there would be a new album out in 1999, and, when that didn't come to pass, they said there would definitely be one in 2000. It's 2000 now, and we still haven't seen this album. >They are just wasting our time with this arent they? Time? No. I just think it's bad for the fan community at large. >And to quote the simpsons "In case you didn't notice I was being sarcastic" I DID notice, but I think you blew off some valid points. -- Eat your broccoli, Nathan DinnerBell@tmbg.org http://www.geocities.com/fablesto/ _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com ------------------------------ From: "General Purplefeet" Subject: Re: TMBG: The Unlimited Truth Date: Fri, 05 Jan 2001 19:07:13 -0000 Message-ID: Matt: >Strangely, I don't ever recall Emusic stating that you could get other >music >from their website for free when you sign up for TMBG Unlimited. I think it was stated in that announcement they sent out about Unlimited. >I truely >believed that you could only download TMBG music. It seems to me that >others >thought the same thing although I could be wrong. I only found out that >you could download other mp3s from someone on this group. Given that, it >does sweeten the pot a bit as well as the fleece and the signed CD. The thing is, I don't think emusic thought of it as "sweetening the pot," but rather as a factor in determining the price. They probably assume that anyone who subscribes WILL be downloading non-TMBG tracks. >I do >agree that 5 downloadable songs are worth $4-7 at best, considering that an >EP on CD these days cost $7. But if you think about it, for an extra >$30-40 >you're getting the other music, fleece and the CD and that's worth it for >me. How much longer are the fleece and CD available, anyway? I'm assuming that the offer is good up until the February songs are put up, but I could be wrong. And, if I subscribed in February, I probably wouldn't get the CD and fleece, but would I have access to the January tracks? >TMBG recognized that there were a lot of Internet fans out there. Heck, >everyone >on this group either owns a computer or uses a computer and will most >likely have >a computer sometime in the future. Not necessarily true. All you need to be on this group is an e-mail account, and you can generally use e-mail at the library, or on an old computer that isn't really MP3-capable. To give an example of the latter, my undergraduate school provided a 486 for use while we were there. This computer worked fine for e-mail, but you could only play MP3's if you turned the quality way down, and didn't do anything else on the computer at the same time. I probably wouldn't have subscribed to Unlimited on there anyway (it wasn't MY computer, after all), but other people on this list could have similar systems. >Ok, that's not the best argument in the world but the fact is >there are a lot of fans of TMBG with computers. Combine that with the fact >that TMBG >didn't have a record label for a long time and you can see that they were >in dire straits >for releasing anything on CD anyway. That's where Emusic comes into play >and distributes >their stuff for them. I don't think you can really blame them for making >the best of it. I can't BLAME them, but that doesn't mean I have to LIKE it. >If you can purchase a CD player you're probably >not so destitute that you can't buy a computer within at least a few years. Probably, although there are REALLY cheap CD players out there. Granted, these probably won't last until the next TMBG studio release, but they're still there. >And hell if you don't >have a computer you're probably predesposed to having a friend who can burn >you >a CD or put the songs on tape. True, but is this friend supposed to be doing this? I get the idea that emusic expects every single person who gets the tracks to be paying separately, and someone without a computer or credit card doesn't have the ability to pay. >In the end, I think it would come down to the XTC rule if TMBG had not >hooked up >with Emusic, it would be 5 years between releases, Factory Showroom 1996 to >the new CD 2001 and there'd be little or no releases of any kind in >between. It was seven years in between 1992's Nonsuch and 1999's Apple Venus. As for TMBG, I think you're forgetting Severe Tire Damage. I don't count that as the new studio album we're supposed to have gotten by now (because, well, it's not a studio album, for the most part), but I don't count Long Tall Weekend or TMBG Unlimited as such, either. In other words, it's a 5-year (or longer) wait in between regular studio albums, but only a 3-year wait in between CD's. -- Eat your broccoli, Nathan DinnerBell@tmbg.org http://www.geocities.com/fablesto/ _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 5 Jan 2001 14:07:12 -0500 From: "Bryce" Message-ID: <93564p$suc$1@ussenterprise.ufp.org> Organization: They Might Be Giants, Unofficially http://www.tmbg.org Subject: TMBG: Re: I've Got a Fang Bongo , bless his heart, coaxed us back on-topic with the following: > 1. I'VE GOT A FANG > This is one of those situations where I hear someone > raving about a song I haven't heard yet and my > expectations were high. I was hoping it was going to > be something of "It's So Loud In Here" caliber but its > not that *type* of song. Funny you should mention that, I consider them to be similar in a way. Both of these songs seem much less lyric-oriented to me than the vast majority of TMBG's earlier work (especially Linnell's songs). Both songs seem like the music came first, and the lyrics were just chosen because they fit the music (as opposed to songs where the lyrics are the animus, like I Hope That I Get Old Before I Die or Purple Toupee). Pure speculation, of course, but I thought it worth mentioning because you made the distinction. > He talks about having a "fang" and compares it to > one of those things you use to punch a hole in a > can with. For awhile I thought he was a guy that > carries one of those can-punchers things around > and not actually someone with a fang in his mouth. > But I changed my mind. Now I think maybe he's > some guy into a goth look that literally has a fang > in his mouth and his appearance disturbs people. > But who knows! One morning on the way to work and I saw this guy on the subway who had a full set of pointy metal teeth, even the front ones were pointy. He yawned, but kept his mouth almost closed; I only saw them because I was sitting right across from him. He must have noticed me looking because he looked annoyed at me and got off at the next stop. I have no idea if he was some psycho cybervampire, or just on his way to a film shoot or something, but the moral of the story is: There are people out there with fangs. Brycula I'm a fright with my tombstone smile. ------------------------------ From: "General Purplefeet" Subject: Re: TMBG: TMBG UnLtd 1 Review Pt 1(was "The Unlimited Truth") Date: Fri, 05 Jan 2001 21:41:27 -0000 Message-ID: Bongo: > > What struck me about the > >first batch of mp3's is how good Flans' tunes are, even stronger than > >Linnell's tunes this time around. I really didn't like "I've Got a Fang" > >much when I first heard it (seeing it performed live made me appreciate >it a > >lot more, tho), but I loved "Drink" and "Cyclops Rock" > >instantly :) > > I can't remember the last time that I agreed with a post so thoroughly! >Generally, I prefer Linnell tunes over Flans'. In fact, I think the Flans >songs on Factory Showroom are what hurt the album. You know, it really seems to have become an almost mindless opinion on this list regarded Factory Showroom that "Linnell=Good; Flansburgh=Bad. While I would agree that the weakest tracks on the album are Flans ones, he has some good stuff on there, too. I don't care all that much for "How Can I Sing Like A Girl?" (creative, but too long) or "XTC Vs. Adam Ant" (not that much to it), but do you really think that, say, "Your Own Worst Enemy" is a better song than "Pet Name" or "S-E-X-X-Y"? (If you do, fine, but I wouldn't be surprised if some people here aren't thinking through the whole "Flans is bad" thing.) >(I wish he would have pushed them over to Mono Puff.) "New York City" WAS originally intended for Mono Puff. It certainly didn't hurt the album, though, since it's my favorite song on there. Then again, I probably would have liked it just as much on a Mono Puff album, since Linnell didn't add that much to it. "S-E-X-X-Y" sounds like it could have been a Mono Puff song, and Hal Cragin's contribution to it makes it all the more likely. I don't know whether Flans ever wanted to do this one with Mono Puff or not, but I don't mind it being on FS (although it probably shouldn't have been the opening track, or the single). The other Flans songs on FS really aren't very Mono Puffish, I'd say. Besides, if they were to cut out all of the Flans songs, wouldn't FS essentially be a Linnell solo album, with some Flans backup? >Anyway, "Drink" and "Cyclops Rock" are the standouts of UnLtd#1 for me. >"Fang" is cool but not as instantly catchy. I don't have Unlimited, but I agree that both of these are great songs. In fact, they're two of my favorite recent TMBG songs (if you can count "Cyclops Rock" as being "recent"). >STORMY PINKNESS (LOVE VERSION) How does this differ from the version of the song that's on the Istanbul EP? > Like so many TMBG songs, FANG has thought provokingly, cryptic lyrics. I >have no idea what the song is about. Really? I thought that it was a remarkably straightforward song, as far as TMBG songs go. There's this guy who has a fang. Sure, it's weird, but pretty much all of the lyrics fit with this literal interpretation. -- Eat your broccoli, Nathan DinnerBell@tmbg.org http://www.geocities.com/fablesto/ _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com ------------------------------ From: "John Ferrer" Subject: TMBG: Factory Showroom Date: Fri, 05 Jan 2001 22:46:55 Message-ID: I didn't even know there was any sort of grudge against Factory Showroom until I joined the list. I think it's fantastic, and itmight even be the one I listen to the most, although I think John Henry is a better album. The only song I don't like is "XTC vs. Adam Ant," and I can easily see why others would share my feeling there, though I can also see why someone would like it a lot. Oddly enough, though, I think this is the album that made me stop saying "Linnell=God, Flans=bad." I think "Pet Name" is my favorite song on their, and I also like "How Can I Sing Like A Girl?" And I don't know where I got this from, but isn't "S-E-X-X-Y" more a Flans song than a Linnell song? Or does everyone hate that one too? This might be shocking, but the album I think is weak is Lincoln. There's such an abundance of silly songs that seem too alike to me. They might stand well on their own, but the album as a whole just seems to rely to heavily on things that sound like throwaways. "Cowtown," "Lie Still, Little Bottle," "Cage & Aquarium," "Piece of Dirt," "Mr. Me," "Pencil Rain," and "Santa's Beard" are all relatively short songs with music that seems to be designed more for laughs than real enjoyment, and the lyrics are mostly just over-the-top and stuffed with puns, which is fine, but sometimes a little essence is nice. Don't get me wrong, though, I still play it frequently and I love it to death, and the songs I didn't list are among myfavorites, but I guess I just wanted to throw my thoughts out there among all this Factory SHowroom bashing. _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com ------------------------------ From: "General Purplefeet" Subject: Re: TMBG: Factory Showroom Date: Fri, 05 Jan 2001 23:08:08 -0000 Message-ID: John Ferrer: >I didn't even know there was any sort of grudge against Factory Showroom >until I joined the list. Well, it depends on whom you ask, as does just about every TMBG-related opinion, but some of the more vocal members here tend to have some sort of grudge against FS, and especially against the Flansburgh songs. For the record, I'll say that FS is probably my least favorite of TMBG's studio albums (note that I specify "studio"; I like it better than Severe Tire Damage), but, for such a great band, that's not saying much. I think it could have benefited from more songs, and maybe a bit of editing on some of the longer songs to make room for these extras. ("HCISLAG," for instance, seems like it has one chorus and solo too many.) >I think it's fantastic, and itmight even be the one >I listen to the most, although I think John Henry is a better album. The >only song I don't like is "XTC vs. Adam Ant," and I can easily see why >others would share my feeling there, though I can also see why someone >would like it a lot. That song certainly has its merits, and it's not a BAD song, just below par for TMBG. >Oddly enough, though, I think this is the album that made me >stop saying "Linnell=God, Flans=bad." I think "Pet Name" is my favorite >song >on their, and I also like "How Can I Sing Like A Girl?" And I don't know >where I got this from, but isn't "S-E-X-X-Y" more a Flans song than a >Linnell song? Or does everyone hate that one too? Yes, "S-E-X-X-Y" is certainly more of a Flans song. I doubt Linnell was even involved in writing it (although Mono Puff bassist Hal Cragin was). I don't really know how people like that one compared to those who hate it. I like it, but, well, it's different from most of what TMBG does, and I can see how it would take some getting used to. A more audacious arrangement than usual is how I'd describe it. That's one reason why I don't think it was the best choice for a lead-in to the album. >This might be shocking, but the album I think is weak is Lincoln. *Shock* >There's >such an abundance of silly songs that seem too alike to me. They might >stand >well on their own, but the album as a whole just seems to rely to heavily >on >things that sound like throwaways. "Cowtown," "Lie Still, Little Bottle," >"Cage & Aquarium," "Piece of Dirt," "Mr. Me," "Pencil Rain," and "Santa's >Beard" are all relatively short songs with music that seems to be designed >more for laughs than real enjoyment, and the lyrics are mostly just >over-the-top and stuffed with puns, which is fine, but sometimes a little >essence is nice. Lincoln is my favorite TMBG album, but I can definitely see what you're saying here. I guess I have a higher tolerance for silly songs than some people here, because I like pretty much everything on Lincoln, and I think it all fits well together. -- Eat your broccoli, Nathan DinnerBell@tmbg.org http://www.geocities.com/fablesto/ _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com ------------------------------ From: "Carl Hoffmann" Subject: RE: TMBG: Factory Showroom Date: Fri, 5 Jan 2001 15:46:14 -0800 Message-ID: When FS first came out, I remember there seemed to be a tremendous backlash against it, probably because it was such an unpredictable direction to go with their sound. I even remember some boos during their tour toward their guitar player, who had a solo during HCISLAG. It took me longer to get used to it than with previous TMBG releases, but wound up loving it. IMHO, that's a mark of a timeless piece of art, one that does not give immediate gratification, but that grows on you after awhile. I find myself listening to a different TMBG CD depending on my mood and how long it's been since I heard it last. How many bands can you say THAT about? Having said that, while Lincoln remains my favorite album, I am thankful that they did NOT try to replicate Lincoln (which was similar to pink album), instead broadening their range by trying new sounds and arrangements with each album (another mark of a timeless band). --Carl "briefly de-lurking" Hoffmann P.S. Thanks to John, I now have S-E-X-X-Y stuck in my head. lol -----Original Message----- From: owner-tmbg-list@tmbg.org [mailto:owner-tmbg-list@tmbg.org]On Behalf Of John Ferrer Sent: Friday, January 05, 2001 10:47 PM To: tmbg-list@tmbg.org Subject: TMBG: Factory Showroom I didn't even know there was any sort of grudge against Factory Showroom until I joined the list. I think it's fantastic, and itmight even be the one I listen to the most, although I think John Henry is a better album. The only song I don't like is "XTC vs. Adam Ant," and I can easily see why others would share my feeling there, though I can also see why someone would like it a lot. Oddly enough, though, I think this is the album that made me stop saying "Linnell=God, Flans=bad." I think "Pet Name" is my favorite song on their, and I also like "How Can I Sing Like A Girl?" And I don't know where I got this from, but isn't "S-E-X-X-Y" more a Flans song than a Linnell song? Or does everyone hate that one too? This might be shocking, but the album I think is weak is Lincoln. There's such an abundance of silly songs that seem too alike to me. They might stand well on their own, but the album as a whole just seems to rely to heavily on things that sound like throwaways. "Cowtown," "Lie Still, Little Bottle," "Cage & Aquarium," "Piece of Dirt," "Mr. Me," "Pencil Rain," and "Santa's Beard" are all relatively short songs with music that seems to be designed more for laughs than real enjoyment, and the lyrics are mostly just over-the-top and stuffed with puns, which is fine, but sometimes a little essence is nice. Don't get me wrong, though, I still play it frequently and I love it to death, and the songs I didn't list are among myfavorites, but I guess I just wanted to throw my thoughts out there among all this Factory SHowroom bashing. _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com ------------------------------ From: "General Purplefeet" Subject: RE: TMBG: Factory Showroom Date: Fri, 05 Jan 2001 23:58:26 -0000 Message-ID: Carl: >I find myself listening >to a different TMBG CD depending on my mood and how long it's been since I >heard it last. How many bands can you say THAT about? Well, any band that has a variety of styles and a sufficient number of albums, I suppose. XTC has been mentioned quite a lot recently, and I suppose you could say that about them. >Having said that, while Lincoln remains my favorite album, I am thankful >that they did NOT try to replicate Lincoln (which was similar to pink >album), instead broadening their range by trying new sounds and >arrangements >with each album (another mark of a timeless band). I'd say Flood is rather similar to Lincoln, although the songs tend to be a little longer and more involved. Also, I'm not sure that Lincoln is as similar to the pink album as a lot of people say it is. There are more real instruments, and the eerie synthesized organ stuff doesn't show up quite as much. -- Eat your broccoli, Nathan DinnerBell@tmbg.org http://www.geocities.com/fablesto/ _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com ------------------------------ From: "Carl Hoffmann" Subject: RE: TMBG: Factory Showroom Date: Fri, 5 Jan 2001 16:45:37 -0800 Message-ID: Good points. I look at it as a progression of TMBG in these first 3 albums. In a very generalized analysis, the pink album was the "first, raw" album; Lincoln, the "more produced" album; and Flood was the "accessible" album. I think They built on the momentum of each successive album, experimenting a bit as they went along, and reached their commercial peak sound with Flood. Of course, I am focusing mainly on production values here. I think Apollo 18 was a more radical jump than from Pink to Lincoln or Lincoln to Flood ("Spider" and "Fingertips" leap to mind). --Carl Hoffmann hmmm, now I've got Dinner Bell stuck in my mind, go figure. ;) I'd say Flood is rather similar to Lincoln, although the songs tend to be a little longer and more involved. Also, I'm not sure that Lincoln is as similar to the pink album as a lot of people say it is. There are more real instruments, and the eerie synthesized organ stuff doesn't show up quite as much. -- Eat your broccoli, Nathan DinnerBell@tmbg.org http://www.geocities.com/fablesto/ _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com ------------------------------ From: Mbrosendale@cs.com Message-ID: Date: Fri, 5 Jan 2001 19:51:32 EST Subject: TMBG: TMBG on ET A piece on the Malcolm in the Middle video was just on Entertainment Tonight! They showed bits of the video and a half-second of the Johns with Flans saying "it involves us getting pelted with an incredible amount of stuff." (Linnell stood smiling beside him). They also gave a plug of the soundtrack release. Can't wait until Sunday! Mary Beth ------------------------------ End of tmbg-list Digest #37-6 *****************************