Errors-To: owner-tmbg-digest@tmbg.org Reply-To: tmbg-digest@tmbg.org Sender: owner-tmbg-digest@tmbg.org Precedence: bulk From: owner-tmbg-digest@tmbg.org To: tmbg-digest@tmbg.org Subject: tmbg-list Digest, Volume 38, Number 20 tmbg-list Digest, Volume 38, Number 20 Tuesday, 20 February 2001 Topics: Re: TMBG: Twistid Re: TMBG: Twistid Re: TMBG: Twistid Re: TMBG: Twistid Re: TMBG: Twistid Re: TMBG: Twistid Re: TMBG: Twistid Re: TMBG: Twistid Re: TMBG: Twistid Re: TMBG: Luxembourg: Democracy or police state ? Kidnapped children and pol Re: Twisted TMBG: Re: Who's Gonna guess the Dead Guy? Re: TMBG: Twistid Re: TMBG: Twistid Re: TMBG: Twistid Re: TMBG: Twistid Re: TMBG: Twistid TMBG: Sim Update! Re: TMBG: Luxembourg: Democracy or police state ? Kidnapped children and pol TMBG: Re: Sim Update! Re: TMBG: Re:The Real Sim Update! Administrivia: For all administrative issues, such as change of address, withdrawal from the list, etc., send a message to the following address: ÁÁowner-tmbg-digest@tmbg.org The views expressed herein are those of the individual authors. tmbg-list is compiled with Digest 3.7b (John Relph ). ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 19 Feb 2001 05:05:49 EST From: Kaylum@aol.com Subject: Re: TMBG: Twistid Message-ID: <63.11fb871b.27c249fd@aol.com> Am I the only one who sees mike's point here? If studio recordings are up.. people won't by such recordings, there is no use rereleasing songs if people are getting them for free and wont buy them. Linnell said that he didn't mind live and studio tracks are MUCH different from each other. There is no double standard. We don't know if the songs had any chance to be rereleased without twistid because twisted is around.. but there is/was a possibility of electra letting tmbg release the b-sides on restless (who would prolly jump at it). How ever small that possiblity was, it is lower now. People pick on Mike too much. You're not the only one. A few years ago, it was reported on this list that Flans mentioned something to the effect that Elektra gave them the rights to their b-sides, so the chance isn't, or wasn't, as small as you might think that they could have re-released them. Of course they have had way too much on their plate recently, but if they ever do consider it, knowing that the studio b-sides have been readily available might cause them to think "Why And just because they haven't said anything doesn't mean they don't mind; they simply have much bigger fish to fry. Kay ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 19 Feb 2001 10:16:23 -0500 From: "Chrissy Rockwell" Subject: Re: TMBG: Twistid Message-ID: [Unknown MIME type or encoding (text/html), contents not processed] ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 19 Feb 2001 10:30:47 -0500 From: the hanged man Subject: Re: TMBG: Twistid Message-ID: <4.2.0.58.20010219102956.017eee48@oscar.cc.gatech.edu> At 10:16 AM 2/19/2001 -0500, Chrissy Rockwell wrote: >All your base are belong to TMBG w00t! You have no chance to survive, make your time. -- -=Matt Brown=- GaTech undergrad cs1050 TA | web: http://thehangedman.digitaldriveway.com | "Every Day is a Good Day" email: thehangedman@death-star.com | -Zen Proverb AIM: THM42 ICQ: 10933909 | ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 19 Feb 2001 10:33:17 -0500 From: the hanged man Subject: Re: TMBG: Twistid Message-ID: <4.2.0.58.20010219103103.0178d418@oscar.cc.gatech.edu> At 12:06 AM 2/19/2001 -0500, Chrissy Rockwell wrote: >Am I the only one who sees mike's point here? >If studio recordings are up.. people won't by such recordings, there is no >use rereleasing songs if people are getting them for free and wont buy >them. Linnell said that he didn't mind live and studio tracks are MUCH >different from each other. There is no double standard. I think this is misinformed... I've downloaded many songs from twistid. I'd jump at the chance to buy Misc T 2. I bet most if not all the folks who download the songs would too. >People pick on Mike too much. Mike picks on other people, too. Isn't this how this started? -- -=Matt Brown=- GaTech undergrad cs1050 TA | web: http://thehangedman.digitaldriveway.com | "Every Day is a Good Day" email: thehangedman@death-star.com | -Zen Proverb AIM: THM42 ICQ: 10933909 | ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 19 Feb 2001 11:29:36 EST From: PRMega@aol.com Subject: Re: TMBG: Twistid Message-ID: << If studio recordings are up.. people won't by such recordings >> Alright, iif people won't buy somethign they can get online, then why was Severe Tire Damage released? There are literally hundreds, if not more, sites that have various live tracks or entire concert bootlegs avaible for download/trade. If the ease of downloading live tracks didn't hinder their plans to release a live album, why would some of the rare recordings stop them from putting out Misc. T2 (Super Fueled Freaksickle?)? PR Mega ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 19 Feb 2001 11:35:40 -0500 From: tmbgirl@juno.com Subject: Re: TMBG: Twistid Message-ID: <20010219.113541.-161595.0.TMBgirl@juno.com> >Misc. T2 (Super Fueled Freaksickle?)? hey hey now, i thought it was superfueled freakCYCLE, the bootleg that was made shortly after this whole list spiel was called superfueled freakSICKLE. no? I don't want to start another Big Blue Dog vs. Pink debate tho *grin* take it easy, J! http://www.geocities.com/tmbgirl.geo/ ________________________________________________________________ GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 19 Feb 2001 11:35:57 -0500 From: "Bryce" Subject: Re: TMBG: Twistid Message-ID: <96ri47$2u5o$1@ussenterprise.ufp.org> Organization: They Might Be Giants, Unofficially http://www.tmbg.org Colleen Anne McClanahan : > Also, Operator Dot is subscribed to this list, and both the Johns have > access to the web. How hard would it be for them to find the Twistid site, > and if they had a problem with it, ask him to cease and desist? > > Either way it goes.. both the TDK and Twistid site are sought by fans. > Neither are completely and unequivocally ethical in every way. But in the > end, if TMBG had a problem with either of them, they have the power to ask > the creators of the site to stop giving away their music for free. I think > either creator has enough respect for TMBG to honor that request. This is the most excellent point that anyone has made in this entire discussion. > And now I will return the shadows from whence I came. No, wait! The list needs more wisdom! Oh well, short of that, I'll weigh in now. :) The difference between studio recordings and live bootlegs is irrelevant. What matters is this: Does a recording's presence on the internet inhibit the Johns' ability to make money from it, either now or in the future? Even bootlegs can be worth something; look at TMBGU's Stormy Pinkness (Love Version). That said, I don't see the benefit in shutting down either TDK's mp3 archive *or* Twistid's (or Napster for that matter). If people want to exchange music, they'll do it by whatever means is available, and it's easier now than ever before. Some ask, "Why would they release another b-side compilation album when all the songs on it are available for free online?" All I can say is that with the music-sharing technology we have today, it's already a matter of trust to expect people to buy albums as opposed to copying them from someone else. I think most people live up to that trust. Bryce ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 19 Feb 2001 11:53:19 -0500 From: "Bryce" Subject: Re: TMBG: Twistid Message-ID: <96rj4o$2v83$1@ussenterprise.ufp.org> Organization: They Might Be Giants, Unofficially http://www.tmbg.org : > the bootleg that was made shortly after this whole > list spiel was called superfueled freakSICKLE. no? What's the pseudo-official tracklilst of this? Just last weekend I burned a disc, and I put the Elektra b-sides on in reverse chronological order, then threw on One More Parade, 25 O'Clock, Dr. Evil, and the Mighty Morphin' version of Sensurround for good measure. Bryce ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 19 Feb 2001 19:12:09 -0000 From: "Timothy Alfalfa" Subject: Re: TMBG: Luxembourg: Democracy or police state ? Kidnapped Message-ID: children and police repression In Luxembourg ? Jean Antoine: >LUXEMBOURG: STATE KIDNAPPING ??? > > >Luxembourg is a democracy. > >But i have to inform so many people as possible > >about a situation impossible to understand in a democracy. Does this have anything to do with Vladimir's Russian Yellow Pages? -- May the light shine upon thee, Nathan DinnerBell@tmbg.org http://www.geocities.com/fablesto/ _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 19 Feb 2001 19:14:50 -0000 From: "Timothy Alfalfa" Subject: Re: Twisted TMBG: Re: Who's Gonna guess the Dead Guy? Message-ID: Matthew Miller: >On Thu, 15 Feb 2001, The Demonic Kangaroo wrote: > > > There are plenty of studio recordings on there. Perhaps the best example > > are the Factory Showroom Sessions outtakes.. > >Ha, ha. > > > John & John were very upset when these recordings were leaked, > >Well, I suppose that's different, yes. > > > do you think they woula appriciate them being online? > >Ask them. I have a feeling that they WOULDN'T appreciate it, but they probably aren't concerned enough to actually do anything about them. Haven't most of the FS outtakes been released by now, though? A song's presence on Long Tall Weekend should be enough to have it removed from twistid, I should think. -- May the light shine upon thee, Nathan DinnerBell@tmbg.org http://www.geocities.com/fablesto/ _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 19 Feb 2001 13:21:05 -0600 From: Mitch Harding Subject: Re: TMBG: Twistid Message-ID: <3A917221.2DADBD9D@tmbg.org> Kaylum@aol.com wrote: > Am I the only one who sees mike's point here? > If studio recordings are up.. people won't by such recordings, there > is no use rereleasing songs if people are getting them for free and wont buy > them. I disagree. I use Napster to get studio recordings all the time, and if I like the recording, I buy the album. I do this not only to show my appreciation of the artist, but also because I like to actually have the CD. CDs are less likely to be lost than data. And CDs are higher quality than most MP3s. So I'm one type of person -- the type who will buy the CD regardless of MP3 availability. But what about everyone else? Well, there are some people who download the MP3s and dont buy the CDs. I suspect that most of these people wouldn't buy the CDs anyway, even without the MP3s, in which case they're not costing the artist any money. Yes, there are some people who get MP3s instead of the CDs, but I don't think it's a big problem. Plus, I do think that digital music is giving artists more exposure. When I get on Napster, I'll sometimes find someone with a good connection speed that happens to have a song that I want. When I do, I add them to my hot list and browse the rest of their music. I download everything that looks interesting. I delete the songs I don't like, and I check out more songs by artists that seemed promising. And if I like enough of their stuff, I buy one of their CDs. I'd say at least half of my CD purchases have been on this nature over the past few months. Through this method I've discovered The Cramps, Placebo, Modest Mouse, and others. And I think it's important to keep in mind that this is going to be very difficult to police. Napster can be shut down, but it's going to be next to impossible to prevent people from sharing files. And no matter what level of security they add to the media itself (like they try to do with DVDs), as long as the music can be played, it can be directed to the "Line In" connection on a sound card and recorded to WAV, and then encoded to MP3. In summary, I feel like music sharing helps artists as much as it hurts them, and that it's not something that is going to stop. And for all the same people who are on their moral high horses about this, let me ask you a question: Have you ever made a mix tape for a friend? If so, did it include any studio recordings? Mitch http://www.mitcharf.com/ "I found myself face-to-face with the son of God -- he was much shorter than I had expected." ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 19 Feb 2001 19:39:45 -0000 From: "Timothy Alfalfa" Subject: Re: TMBG: Twistid Message-ID: Kay: >You're not the only one. A few years ago, it was reported on this list >that >Flans mentioned something to the effect that Elektra gave them the rights >to >their b-sides, so the chance isn't, or wasn't, as small as you might think >that they could have re-released them. If they had bought the rights from Elektra, doesn't it seem like they would have wasted their money if they DON'T release them? Or did they just not want Elektra to make any money from them? >Of course they have had way too much >on their plate recently Within the past year or so, yes, but some of those EP's have been out of print for a LONG time. >but if they ever do consider it, knowing that the >studio b-sides have been readily available might cause them to think "Why > And just because they haven't said anything doesn't mean they >don't mind; they simply have much bigger fish to fry. Well, I would prefer an actual CD with high-quality recordings of the songs to beyond-second-generation MP3's, and I'm sure there are other people who agree with me. Is it ENOUGH people, though? Perhaps a more important reason than the existence of twistid as to why Superfueled Freaksicle (or whatever) hasn't been released is that the Johns don't think there's a market for it. After all, the fact that these songs were relegated to B-sides in the first place suggests that the Johns don't consider them to be their best work. As someone mentioned earlier in this thread, they often seem to dismiss songs that hard-core fans would love to hear. Besides, I'm guessing that not that many people bought the EP's when they WERE in print, or else they wouldn't have gone out of print so quickly. (I don't really know if this is true, but if something is selling well, why not keep producing it?) Maybe the band doesn't want to take the risk that releasing another B-side album wouldn't pay off. -- May the light shine upon thee, Nathan DinnerBell@tmbg.org http://www.geocities.com/fablesto/ _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 19 Feb 2001 19:46:41 -0000 From: "Timothy Alfalfa" Subject: Re: TMBG: Twistid Message-ID: Bryce: >: > > the bootleg that was made shortly after this whole > > list spiel was called superfueled freakSICKLE. no? > >What's the pseudo-official tracklilst of this? I don't think there is one. I could be wrong about this, though, as I'm not even sure of the source for the "Superfueled Freaksicle" title. Maybe there was a possible track list at one point (although I suppose there would be a few more possible tracks for it at this point). >Just last weekend I burned a disc, and I put the Elektra b-sides on in >reverse >chronological order, then threw on One More Parade, 25 O'Clock, Dr. Evil, >and the Mighty Morphin' version of Sensurround for good >measure. Actually, I wonder if there would be complications involved with putting some of these songs on a TMBG compilation. Weren't some of them released by different record labels? And buying the Elektra B-sides doesn't mean they also bought the Elektra compilation contributions (like "One More Parade"). -- May the light shine upon thee, Nathan DinnerBell@tmbg.org http://www.geocities.com/fablesto/ _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 19 Feb 2001 15:34:07 -0500 From: "Chrissy Rockwell" Subject: Re: TMBG: Twistid Message-ID: [Unknown MIME type or encoding (text/html), contents not processed] ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 19 Feb 2001 14:43:21 -0600 From: Mitch Harding Subject: Re: TMBG: Twistid Message-ID: <3A918569.38067E@tmbg.org> Chrissy Rockwell wrote: > >Kaylum@aol.com wrote: > I said it not her. Ah. Looking back, I see why I made the mistake -- your message was quoted in her message, but there was nothing indicating that it was just a quote. > >And for all the same people who are on their moral high horses about > >this, let me ask you a question: Have you ever made a mix tape for a > >friend? If so, did it include any studio recordings? > I don't think I was on my moral high horse. I am just saying I saw > mike's point. Just like i saw the other points. I wasn't talking about you exclusively, or even you at all, really. I've just seen a lot of people give sermons on the evils of Napster and/or the evils of downloading any MP3s that are available for purchase on CD, tape, record, etc. And it strikes me that most, if not all, of the people who deliver such sermons have also probably made mix tapes for their friends. And most mix tapes contain music that is available for purchase. Sure, it's easier to transfer MP3s than it is to copy tapes, but it is definitely the same principle. > I DO think that > studio releases and rare songs are a different story, but I don't know > how much I really care you know? I will get studio songs too. Well, they are different things, sure. It seems difficult to defend the position that you shouldn't download an MP3 that contains otherwise unobtainable music. Maybe in the case of leaked material, ala Factory Showroom sessions, but the real wrong-doer there is the leaker, IMO. > I don't like twistid for different reasons. Sorry if I missed it earlier (initially I had hoped the topic would blow over quickly, so I didn't read the first few messages) -- why do you dislike Twistid? Mitch! www.mitcharf.com "I care about nutrition" ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 19 Feb 2001 18:01:08 -0800 (PST) From: Mysterio Gal Subject: TMBG: Sim Update! Message-ID: <20010220020108.19327.qmail@web12103.mail.yahoo.com> Wella Wella Wella Looks like ol' mr. Linnell has eyes for Cyclops (he even brought him flowers (tee hee)) And The party at ol' one-eyes house was so wild, Linnell passed out beside the pool, that party mammal. *just a bit insane now* ===== Mysterio Gal "Tit'num. Nippler -- Nibplern -- nippblelen -- in my tit." --A drunken Cyclops explains to Wolvie that he's not the only guy with hard metal in his body--Liquid Sunshine mr_realgal@yahoo.com Home Page: http://www.geocities.com/SoHo/Coffeehouse/4871 __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail - only $35 a year! http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 19 Feb 2001 23:07:17 EST From: CallMeDoctorWorm@aol.com Subject: Re: TMBG: Luxembourg: Democracy or police state ? Kidnapped Message-ID: <71.ae1524d.27c34775@aol.com> children and poli... In a message dated 2/19/01 2:17:50 PM Eastern Standard Time, Nathan writes: > >LUXEMBOURG: STATE KIDNAPPING ??? > > > > > >Luxembourg is a democracy. > > > >But i have to inform so many people as possible > > > >about a situation impossible to understand in a democracy. > > Does this have anything to do with Vladimir's Russian Yellow Pages? > > Probably not, but it might have to do with that guy ho wanted to kill us > all way back when. > > Ignore this post. I dare you. > ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 19 Feb 2001 20:28:52 -0800 (PST) From: Mysterio Gal Subject: Re: TMBG: Re:The Real Sim Update! Message-ID: <20010220042852.24891.qmail@web12101.mail.yahoo.com> Actually, nothing, just one of those happy accidents, s'like they were made for each other *snert* *giggle* <<> Looks like ol' mr. Linnell has eyes for Cyclops (he > even brought him flowers (tee hee)) And The party at He+him? What have you done to Linnell!?>> ===== Mysterio Gal "Tit'num. Nippler -- Nibplern -- nippblelen -- in my tit." --A drunken Cyclops explains to Wolvie that he's not the only guy with hard metal in his body--Liquid Sunshine mr_realgal@yahoo.com Home Page: http://www.geocities.com/SoHo/Coffeehouse/4871 __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail - only $35 a year! http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ End of tmbg-list Digest #38-20 ******************************