Errors-To: owner-tmbg-digest@tmbg.org Reply-To: tmbg-digest@tmbg.org Sender: owner-tmbg-digest@tmbg.org Precedence: bulk From: owner-tmbg-digest@tmbg.org To: tmbg-digest@tmbg.org Subject: tmbg-list Digest, Volume 42, Number 17 tmbg-list Digest, Volume 42, Number 17 Sunday, 17 June 2001 Topics: TMBG: tmbg-list FAQ TMBG: Re: tmbg-list Digest #42-15 TMBG: Re: tmbg-list Digest #42-16 TMBG: Re: tmbg-list Digest #42-16 TMBG: Proposed TMBG site Re: TMBG: Proposed TMBG site Re: TMBG: Proposed TMBG site Re: TMBG: Proposed TMBG site Re: TMBG: Proposed TMBG site Re: TMBG: Proposed TMBG site Re: TMBG:I've lost respect for TMBG TMBG: Re: (none) TMBG: Re: (none) Re: TMBG: OK, so I didn't get the autograph...BUT Re: TMBG: Re: top ten sad songs TMBG: Re: tmbg-list Digest #42-16 Administrivia: For all administrative issues, such as change of address, withdrawal from the list, etc., send a message to the following address: ÁÁowner-tmbg-digest@tmbg.org The views expressed herein are those of the individual authors. tmbg-list is compiled with Digest 3.7b (John Relph ). ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sat, 16 Jun 2001 03:15:00 -0400 (EDT) From: Majordomo Subject: TMBG: tmbg-list FAQ Message-ID: <200106160715.f5G7F0K13337@ussenterprise.ufp.org> *** ADMINISTRIVIA *** ÁÁThis notice is posted twice a month to tmbg-list and tmbg-digest, as well as sent to all new users. Please read it if you have questions about the list. The TMBG mailing list is administered by Leo Bicknell . It provides a forum for discussing They Might Be Giants and Their music. 1) Unsubscribing from the list It is easy to unsubscribe from this mailing list. If you are subscribed to the regular, or "bounce" list, send the command unsubscribe tmbg-list e-mail@address in the body of a message to . To unsubscribe from the tmbg-digest digested version of the list, send the command unsubscribe tmbg-digest e-mail@address in the body of a message to . "e-mail@address" stands for the email address that is subscribed to the list. If you are sending the command from the email account that is subscribed, this part of the command is optional. If you have problems, send mail to . 2) Subscribing to the list ÁÁFollow the instructions above for unsubscribing but send the word 'subscribe' rather than unsubscribe. :-) Keep in mind that tmbg-list will send you a copy of each message as it's written, which may be a lot. tmbg-digest will send you all the messages written in a day in the middle of the night. See http://www.tmbg.org/mail-news/ for more information. 3) Sending messages to the list ÁÁTo send a message to the list just mail it to tmbg-list@tmbg.org and it will get sent out to everyone. Please don't mail any chain letters, make money fast schemes, "me too" messages, or anything else that doesn't contribute to the discussion about TMBG. ÁÁIMPORTANT IMPORTANT IMPORTANT IMPORTANT IMPORTANT ÁÁWhen you send a message to the list you are sending ÁÁmessages to hundreds of people. Make sure that your ÁÁmessage is one that hundreds of people need to read. ÁÁDo not send "me too" messages to the list. Do not ÁÁsend messages about non-tmbg topics to the list. Hold ÁÁprivate conversations in private e-mail. Sending ÁÁmessages that the list administrator deems off topic ÁÁwill result in your being removed from the list. 4) The TMBG FAQ The They Might Be Giants Frequently Asked Questions list is a compilation of the most requested information about the Johns. It is maintained by John Relph . To get the latest copy of the FAQ, you can do any of the following things. First, it is available on the World Wide Web at: http://reality.sgi.com/relph/music/TMBG-FAQ.html and, for a plaintext version: http://reality.sgi.com/relph/music/TMBG-FAQ Second, it is posted regularly on the newsgroup alt.music.tmbg. Third, if you can't get to one of those places, you can mail me and I'll send you a copy. 5) The websites ÁÁThe unofficial web site, http://www.tmbg.org/ has all sorts of good TMBG information including information on this mailing list (http://www.tmbg.org/mail-news/) as well as pointers to where you can read the list via news. You'll also find lyrics, chords, and interpretations for many of the songs. Also try out the Official TMBG Website at: http://www.tmbg.com/ As always, thank you for your mind. *** ADMINISTRIVIA *** ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 16 Jun 2001 08:21:14 EDT From: Instaboy@aol.com Subject: TMBG: Re: tmbg-list Digest #42-15 Message-ID: I love it when people tell me I'm not a true fan because I do not blindly love everything a band releases. I am not a robot. I try and stay totally objective to all new music that is released. If I don't like it I try and analyze why. Even if I was dissapointed by an album, I will still give the band another chance when they release the next one. I have learned to never trust the opinion of anyone who who loves everything. george ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 16 Jun 2001 08:43:23 EDT From: Instaboy@aol.com Subject: TMBG: Re: tmbg-list Digest #42-16 Message-ID: <12a.23878a.285cae6b@aol.com> Since the Ambassador of Texas is taken, can I be the ambassador of Bush's Daughters? (My friend actually dated one of them. Well they had sex a couple of times at least...) george ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 16 Jun 2001 08:50:51 EDT From: Instaboy@aol.com Subject: TMBG: Re: tmbg-list Digest #42-16 Message-ID: <40.cddc3b4.285cb02b@aol.com> Out of all the versions of "She Thinks She's Edith Head" I would like the one that is a actually a completely different song on Mink Car. I have never found that sound pleasing in anyway. Well actually, the verses are pretty good, but the choruses annoy me. It's sad really. george ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 16 Jun 2001 17:01:51 -0000 From: "Nathan Mulac DeHoff" Subject: TMBG: Proposed TMBG site Message-ID: An idea that I have been throwing around for a little while is to make sort of an annotated TMBG file, mentioning references in TMBG songs, as well as just general information on them. If you have any submissions, ideas, or general comments for this (or, for that matter, if you just want to tell me why it's a dumb or unnecessary idea), let me know. I'm mostly looking for stuff like this: 1. References made in TMBG songs to other songs, books, movies, TV shows, news stories, etc. These references should be likely. They don't necessarily have to be confirmed by the Johns, but they should be things that people familiar with both the TMBG song and the original material would notice. For instance, the reference to "Across The Universe" in "Nothing's Gonna Change My Clothes," or that to "My Generation" in "Hope That I Get Old Before I Die" are pretty likely, and the sort of stuff I'd want to include on the site. If you've read the interpretation at tmbg.org claiming that "Boat Of Car" is about John Steinbeck's THE GRAPES OF WRATH, well, that's the kind of stuff I'd rather not include, unless you have a REALLY good argument for how it's a reference. 2. General information on a song, preferably from the horse's mouth (not that the Johns are equines), although I'll probably include some other stuff, too. This can be commentary on songs from concerts, interviews, or the like. 3. Media in which the songs have been used. If a song has appeared in a movie, TV show, or whatever, I'd like to know about it. 4. References TO TMBG songs in other works (like the several ones in Terry Pratchett's Discworld books). I might also include mentions of cover versions that have been done, although I would prefer to stick with relatively well-known bands here. 5. Comments and suggestions on the format. I know very little about website design, so any ideas on this front are welcome. Stuff I would prefer NOT to receive: 1. Information that's already in the FAQ, or some other easy-to-access source. When this is relevant, I'll probably just link to it, rather than duplicating the information. I WOULD, however, like links to lesser-known sources where TMBG information is available. (Maybe I should have included that in my "what I do want" list, but oh well.) 2. Personal thoughts/opinions on songs. 3. Personal interpretations. Considering how rarely tmbg.org is updated, we probably DO need another site for these, but such is not my object in making this page. -- May the light shine upon thee, Nathan DinnerBell@tmbg.org http://www.geocities.com/fablesto/ _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 16 Jun 2001 19:22:17 From: "John Ferrer" Subject: Re: TMBG: Proposed TMBG site Message-ID: [Unknown MIME type or encoding (text/html), contents not processed] ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 16 Jun 2001 15:00:31 -0600 From: "makebase" Subject: Re: TMBG: Proposed TMBG site Message-ID: <9gghfk$2ocq$1@ussenterprise.ufp.org> Organization: They Might Be Giants, Unofficially http://www.tmbg.org This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0009_01C0F675.169D7BC0 Content-Type: text/plain; ÁÁcharset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I think this is a good idea as well. As for two sites with = fan-submitted interpretations and duplicated material, I submit this as = my philosophy. While I think it is better for TMBG sites to compliment = each other rather than copy each other, I don't see this as copying, so = long as the interps on the new site are unique to that site (i.e. don't = just say what tmbg.org says). In fact, the concept of this site seems = to go a step beyond tmbg.org to give you all sorts of new information = relating to the song, almost Pop-Up Video-ish. If you want to avoid = stepping on tmbg.org's toes altogether, however, I suggest providing a = link to the .org interps and suggesting that people send their interps = there. Just my humble opinion, Shaun Leader in the fight for TMBG ambassadorship to Utah "Showing no sign of surprise..." ------=_NextPart_000_0009_01C0F675.169D7BC0 Content-Type: text/html; ÁÁcharset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
I think this is a good idea as = well.  As for=20 two sites with fan-submitted interpretations and duplicated material, I = submit=20 this as my philosophy.  While I think it is better for TMBG = sites to=20 compliment each other rather than copy each other, I don't see this as = copying,=20 so long as the interps on the new site are unique to that site (i.e. = don't just=20 say what tmbg.org says).  In fact, the concept of this site seems = to go a=20 step beyond tmbg.org to give you all sorts of new information relating = to the=20 song, almost Pop-Up Video-ish.  If you want to avoid stepping on = tmbg.org's=20 toes altogether, however, I suggest providing a link to the .org interps = and=20 suggesting that people send their interps there.
 
Just my humble opinion,
 
Shaun
Leader in the fight for TMBG = ambassadorship to=20 Utah
"Showing no sign of=20 surprise..."
------=_NextPart_000_0009_01C0F675.169D7BC0-- ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 16 Jun 2001 17:13:50 -0400 From: Leo Bicknell Subject: Re: TMBG: Proposed TMBG site Message-ID: <20010616171350.A90825@ussenterprise.ufp.org> Organization: United Federation of Planets I've been out, and not paying attention to this thread. That said, I will offer up the following. TMBG.ORG has not been updated in some time. There are multiple reasons for it, but it comes down to the fact that no one currently working on the site has the time. I currently provide hardware and bandwidth for the site, but can offer only minimal upkeep time to make sure it keeps running. I have a huge archive of back submissions that have not been processed. I would like to see tmbg.org grow, but now, as in the past it would take several dedicated individuals to make that happen. Builing a web site takes a lot of time. There has been an open invitation for some time for anyone who wants to help build a bigger and better tmbg.org to sign up and help. I know there are some tallented people out there who could build an amazing site. I would like to build tmbg.org to be the ultimate fan site. To that end, I'd like to integrate tmbg.net, and some of the other sites on the web ring. One site, one interface, everything you could ever want. Until that happens, I agree with the non-duplication sentimate. I don't want to duplicate what others are doing without formally integrating it into the site. So, you might ask, what do you need to know in order to work on tmbg.org? Well, I believe we are at a turning point, where we need to automate many functions. The site is already based on a SQL database, along with some Apache extensions. I would like a small group of people with Perl + SQL + Web experience to work on the infrastructure scripts and programs that make the site work. If they build proper interfaces, then we can allow many more people with only basic web skills the ability to update the site via web interfaces. Eventually I would like to move to a www.slashdot.org model. That is, people can submit things and the best floats to the top via a rating system. This is much harder than it seems, particularly for a more long lived topic like TMBG. So, if you'd like to help, let me know. -- Leo Bicknell - bicknell@ufp.org Systems Engineer - Internetworking Engineer - CCIE 3440 Read TMBG List - tmbg-list-request@tmbg.org, www.tmbg.org ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 16 Jun 2001 15:52:12 -0600 From: "makebase" Subject: Re: TMBG: Proposed TMBG site Message-ID: <9ggkgi$2t6s$1@ussenterprise.ufp.org> Organization: They Might Be Giants, Unofficially http://www.tmbg.org Leo Bicknell wrote in message news:20010616171350.A90825@ussenterprise.ufp.org... > > I would like to build tmbg.org to be the ultimate fan site. To > that end, I'd like to integrate tmbg.net, and some of the other > sites on the web ring. One site, one interface, everything you > could ever want. Until that happens, I agree with the non-duplication > sentimate. I don't want to duplicate what others are doing without > formally integrating it into the site. Would you care to elaborate on your vision for integrating other sites into tmbg.org? I've noticed that in certain areas, many sites provide different pieces of information on the same topic. For example, tmbg.org has lots of lyrics, yet another site has the "State Songs" lyrics, which are absent on tmbg.org. It would be nice to access all the lyrics at one site. I wouldn't like to see, however, one person say, "Everyone, give up your site autonomy and work for me." Some interesting content could end up being turned down in a clash of egos that way. Having a site myself, I would like to see TMBG become the best represented band on the internet, and one of the ways I see that happening is to encourage free-thinking people to do their own sites. > > So, you might ask, what do you need to know in order to work on > tmbg.org? Well, I believe we are at a turning point, where we need > to automate many functions. The site is already based on a SQL > database, along with some Apache extensions. I would like a small > group of people with Perl + SQL + Web experience to work on the > infrastructure scripts and programs that make the site work. If > they build proper interfaces, then we can allow many more people > with only basic web skills the ability to update the site via web > interfaces. So, is there nothing that those of us with only basic or intermediate web skills can contribute? Meanwhile, those of us with sites, can we agree that, in the best interest of web site quality, that we will not just duplicate the content of sister TMBG sites? I know the arguments: the Johns, not the fans own the lyrics; magazine articles don't belong to any of us; blah, blah blah. But, with a little creativity, we can all contribute something unique that will add to the quality of TMBG content on the web, not just duplicate it. As far as this new site is concerned, I would think that even if you do not intend to provide interps, it likely cannot be avoided totally. As long as you present your content in a new and refreshing manner (like providing info on what a song might be referencing, what may have referenced the song, and the other things you previously mentioned), I see your idea as a good thing. Shaun of www.tmbg.cc Ambassador of Utah, People's Republic of "Weren't you the one I hurt? Weren't you the one that I betrayed? Did you stay angry with me?" ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 16 Jun 2001 18:02:12 -0400 From: Leo Bicknell Subject: Re: TMBG: Proposed TMBG site Message-ID: <20010616180212.A96258@ussenterprise.ufp.org> Organization: United Federation of Planets On Sat, Jun 16, 2001 at 03:52:12PM -0600, makebase wrote: > Would you care to elaborate on your vision for integrating other sites into > tmbg.org? I've noticed that in certain areas, many sites provide different > pieces of information on the same topic. For example, tmbg.org has lots of > lyrics, yet another site has the "State Songs" lyrics, which are absent on > tmbg.org. It would be nice to access all the lyrics at one site. I > wouldn't like to see, however, one person say, "Everyone, give up your site > autonomy and work for me." Some interesting content could end up being > turned down in a clash of egos that way. Having a site myself, I would like > to see TMBG become the best represented band on the internet, and one of the > ways I see that happening is to encourage free-thinking people to do their > own sites. I have little interest in the content, but in the consistency of presntation. I would be happy to present hundreds of views, as long as the basic page, navigation, and all that was the same. That is, I have no interest in people's opinions, just making it easy for them to find the information they want. > So, is there nothing that those of us with only basic or intermediate web > skills can contribute? At the moment that is quite difficult for www.tmbg.org, it's in a half way state between static and automated. That needs to be fixed. -- Leo Bicknell - bicknell@ufp.org Systems Engineer - Internetworking Engineer - CCIE 3440 Read TMBG List - tmbg-list-request@tmbg.org, www.tmbg.org ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 17 Jun 2001 00:05:01 -0500 From: "Polaris" Subject: Re: TMBG:I've lost respect for TMBG Message-ID: <9ghdda$12c9$1@ussenterprise.ufp.org> Organization: They Might Be Giants, Unofficially http://www.tmbg.org > [Snipville, population 42] note: Gilbert Gottfried's voice screams this post. Am I the ONLY one here who sees this as a joke? You people are such anal-retentives. If a regular had posted the story, we would all have laughed and immediately seen the joke. She deliberately misspells both John names and concocts a tale of a pushy fan given a response more abusive than Flansburgh would give. It's not unheard of. If Scratch, Lex, Asa, hell, any regs said it, we'd know and all joke around about it. Come ON, people. This is a Linnell-died-during-a-helicopter-ride-when-the-chopper-exploded-and-fell-on- Dan-Levine's-head,-causing-"The-Producers"-to-fail-miserably story. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 17 Jun 2001 00:10:09 -0500 From: "Polaris" Subject: TMBG: Re: (none) Message-ID: <9ghdmt$132j$1@ussenterprise.ufp.org> Organization: They Might Be Giants, Unofficially http://www.tmbg.org eat cookie ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 17 Jun 2001 00:10:39 -0500 From: "Polaris" Subject: TMBG: Re: (none) Message-ID: <9ghdnr$1331$1@ussenterprise.ufp.org> Organization: They Might Be Giants, Unofficially http://www.tmbg.org cookie good ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 17 Jun 2001 00:08:43 -0500 From: "Polaris" Subject: Re: TMBG: OK, so I didn't get the autograph...BUT Message-ID: <9ghdk8$12ue$1@ussenterprise.ufp.org> Organization: They Might Be Giants, Unofficially http://www.tmbg.org > You'd think they'd sell a Flans (monster size) and a Linnell (smaller > size)... Yeah, and the Flans size expands and contracts frequently. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 16 Jun 2001 22:42:30 -0700 From: Bongo Subject: Re: TMBG: Re: top ten sad songs Message-ID: <3B2C4343.5ECB5FD7@pacificnet.net> Film2Edit@aol.com wrote: > The End of The Tour I think is probably the saddest one. After I read the > interpretations of it, the meaning of the song changed for me. Yeah, I read that interpretation on tmbg.org. Personally, I think the interpreter took some leaps in logic. Still, I would say it qualifies as a sad TMBG song in some way. For some reason I don't think of sadness when I think about TMBG. I can think of many of their songs that express bitterness and frustration and others that have a dark humor but I'm not so sure about sad. Also, They seem to like mixing negative sentiments with bouncy music and playful lyrics. I didn't see all the replies to this request but I guessing "Why Must I Be Sad" was on there, right? Okay if I HAD to come up with 10, here they are not in any order: 1. Your Own Worst Enemy (a song featuring drinking alone and regret) 2. Exquisite Dead Guy (for the frustrated plea, "how am I supposed to let you know the way I feel about you?") 3. The "I Walk Along Darkened Corridors" section of Fingertips 4. Window 5. Why Must I Be Sad? 6. End of the Tour 7. Pet Name (I sense more resentment than sorrow actually) 8. When It Rains It Snows (hard to say why I'm choosing this one. I guess it seems a little bittersweet to me.) 9. O, Do Not Forsake Me 10. Drink (for the desire to rhyme "buried alive") ..and others I'm probably forgetting. -B O N G O ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 16 Jun 2001 22:52:21 -0700 (PDT) From: Zeppy Fish Subject: TMBG: Re: tmbg-list Digest #42-16 Message-ID: <32983846.992757141831.JavaMail.imail@neon.excite.com> I really LIKE the part where he says "people put your hands together." It works because it accompanies the bass solo, which immediately follows. And yes, this is a sublime version of a fantastic song. I also think the Ritz version of WDTSS is my alltime fave. PZ >I also snagged May's Unltd concert and I love the version of The > Guitar from the Ritz concert. Except for the part where Flans starts > telling everyone to put their hands together. I wish they could re-record > that one without that part because I absolutely love that rendition of The > Guitar and The Guitar is already my favourite TMBG song. _______________________________________________________ Send a cool gift with your E-Card http://www.bluemountain.com/giftcenter/ ------------------------------ End of tmbg-list Digest #42-17 ******************************