Errors-To: owner-tmbg-digest@tmbg.org Reply-To: tmbg-digest@tmbg.org Sender: owner-tmbg-digest@tmbg.org Precedence: bulk From: owner-tmbg-digest@tmbg.org To: tmbg-digest@tmbg.org Subject: tmbg-list Digest, Volume 43, Number 24 tmbg-list Digest, Volume 43, Number 24 Tuesday, 24 July 2001 Topics: Re: TMBG: Misheard lyrics Re: TMBG: Christian Lyrics TMBG: Re: Re: Has anyone seen Chuck and Buck? Re:TMBG: Favorite openers TMBG: Re: WMBG2 TMBG: Re: They Might Be Atheists TMBG: Re: They Might Be Atheists Re:TMBG: Re: They Might Be Atheists Re: TMBG: Re: They Might Be Atheists Re: TMBG: Re: They Might Be Atheists Re: TMBG: Re: They Might Be Atheists Re: TMBG: Re: They Might Be Atheists TMBG: Oh, god, what have I done!!?!? Re: TMBG: Re: They Might Be Atheists Re[2]: TMBG: Re: They Might Be Atheists Re: TMBG: Re: They Might Be Atheists Re: TMBG: Re: They Might Be Atheists TMBG: Tabs for I've Got A Fang Administrivia: For all administrative issues, such as change of address, withdrawal from the list, etc., send a message to the following address: ÁÁowner-tmbg-digest@tmbg.org The views expressed herein are those of the individual authors. tmbg-list is compiled with Digest 3.7b (John Relph ). ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 23 Jul 2001 03:04:46 EDT From: Film2Edit@aol.com Subject: Re: TMBG: Misheard lyrics Message-ID: <47.e4a9403.288d268e@aol.com> >>I always thought it was "deathwish". What the hell is a wishnik?? >Isn't a wishnik one of those little troll doll things with the long neon colored hair? No, no. It's that thing you see at night that hides in your closest and waits until you're asleep. -Erika ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 23 Jul 2001 00:56:00 +0100 From: David Poppers Subject: Re: TMBG: Christian Lyrics Message-ID: <3B5B680C.F2E513B4@earthlink.net> Organization: They Might Be Giants, Unofficially http://www.tmbg.org Hmm, I found something strangely akin to this site, while looking for information on Robot Parade, except instead of Jesus lyrics, it's some retarded roleplaying insider joke. Wait, no. Now I remember-- my friend says that Earthbound is a great SNES game. Still, it's pretty darned strange. http://mu.starmen.net/poems/idiot/parade.html Earthbound Parade by Village Idiot (sung to They Might Be Giants' Robot Parade) About this time, Four children worked together, To defeat the evil Giygas, Earthbound Parade, Earthbound Parade, Wave the signs that X. Agerate made, Earthbound Parade, Earthbound Parade, They obey whay buzz buzz said, Theres Frying Pans, Theres Powerful Rays, here comes a hippie with bashed out brains, Earthbound Parade, Earthbound Parade, Wave the signs that X. Agerate made, Earthbound Parade, Earthbound Parade, They obey what buzz buzz said. > Charlie Miller wrote: > > http://www.ultranet.com/~mari/lifesaver.htm > > This is funny. Some random surfing from plif.com brought me to a > christian lyrics site....they change the lyrics in songs to make them > about christianity for some reason...anyway particle man was > there..read it and try not to cringe. > > -Charlie Miller > http://flipse.com/dirky/ > ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 23 Jul 2001 01:57:03 -0700 From: "Erich" Subject: TMBG: Re: Re: Has anyone seen Chuck and Buck? Message-ID: That movie is cool. I wanted to see it cause i heard it was good and heard about the TMBG scene but then when i rented it I forgot it was on there. It was a nice surprise. You should all see it not only because its good but because its got TMBG too. Erich ----- Original Message ----- From: "scratch" To: Sent: Sunday, July 22, 2001 4:12 PM Subject: TMBG: Re: Has anyone seen Chuck and Buck? > Dr. Worm. > > -scratch > > Instaboy@aol.com wrote: > > > > This has probably been answered before, but in the office scene of Chuck and Buck when Charles unmutes the television and says "I signed this band" it is They Might Be Giants, I'm sure of it but I can't remember what song and it's not credited in the end... Although they do thank John Flansburgh. > > > > Anyone know? > > > > george > ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 23 Jul 2001 10:01:53 -0400 From: karinh@sterl.com Subject: Re:TMBG: Favorite openers Message-ID: <4055166591@sterl.com> I don't understand why no one has mentioned Sapphire Bullets. Okay, they were only a cover band, they didn't do anything original, and I didn't really see the point in opening for a band you were a cover band of, but they were so sincere. They tried really hard, even if they weren't very good. So they're a little lame and derivative, we all know that without TMBG they wouldn't even exist, but it could be worse. With names like Jared and Tyler, without TMBG they would have been destined for a cheesy N-Sync cover band... Karin H ** FREE THE EXPO 67 ** ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 23 Jul 2001 10:01:06 -0400 From: "Father Bingo" Subject: TMBG: Re: WMBG2 Message-ID: <9jhapt$am7$1@ussenterprise.ufp.org> Organization: Make Them Look i've been out of town for the past week. best friend's wedding in FLA ... had to go, i was the best man. I'll post the current standings tomorrow, after i catch up with the mass of emails and tally in the most recent ballots. rock. http://go.to/wmbgt "Erich" wrote in message news:OE13OCHT8TXx3j037mP0000152e@hotmail.com... YO!! Father Bingo! Let's get some standings or poll stats, pie charts whatever on the WMBG2 voting! Erich ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 23 Jul 2001 10:34:55 EDT From: PosterKid1@aol.com Subject: TMBG: Re: They Might Be Atheists Message-ID: <81.d6b86e9.288d900f@aol.com> << I personally think that anything a public figure states factually should be available to be known by whoever wants to know.>> And I personally think that sometimes certain things should just remain within a certain circle of friends. Why this urge to spread around information for no other reason than... it should be spread around? Surely there are more constructive ways to spend one's time. Honestly, I don't understand this urge on the part of some fans to take it upon themselves to do things like this. Do they think they're doing the artist a favor? Do they think John Linnell will call them up on the phone and say, "Hey man, thanks for adding my name to the atheists list. You seem really cool -- why don't you stop by the studio and hang with me and Flans, just the three of us. Maybe you can play a little tambourine on this track we're working on." <> That sounds really creepy to me. There are also sites that make lists of Jews and homosexuals, and those sites are not exactly sponsored by B'nai Brith or GLAAD if you know what I mean. Again, couldn't they spend their time more usefully, like, I don't know, digging sewage ditches in underdeveloped countries or working at a soup kitchen or something? <> Once again, one's personal religious beliefs are exponentially more personal and controversial than whether one chooses to inhale tobacco smoke. So no, it's not *just* a fact sheet. It's potentially a blacklist. And just because Linell said it doesn't mean it *automatically* has to go any further than this list. <> Ask yourself this: Why would anyone want to know? <> If you stopped Linnell on the street, you'd be invading his privacy, something you don't seem to have a problem with. <> My question is: Don't *you* have bigger things to worry about than making sure the whole world knows John Linnell's every public utterance? ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 23 Jul 2001 10:46:33 -0400 From: "Father Bingo" Subject: TMBG: Re: They Might Be Atheists Message-ID: <9jhdf4$cro$1@ussenterprise.ufp.org> Organization: Make Them Look yeah, i have to agree with PosterKid1 here. it's not cool adding anyone other than yourself to any list, let alone one dealing with religious beliefs. -mike "I call myself Father Bingo but that doesn't mean I'm Catholic, especially with a last name like" lebovitz wrote in message news:81.d6b86e9.288d900f@aol.com... > << I personally think that anything a public figure states factually should > be available to be known by whoever wants to know.>> > > And I personally think that sometimes certain things should just remain > within a certain circle of friends. Why this urge to spread around > information for no other reason than... it should be spread around? Surely > there are more constructive ways to spend one's time. > Honestly, I don't understand this urge on the part of some fans to take > it upon themselves to do things like this. Do they think they're doing the > artist a favor? Do they think John Linnell will call them up on the phone > and say, "Hey man, thanks for adding my name to the atheists list. You seem > really cool -- why don't you stop by the studio and hang with me and Flans, > just the three of us. Maybe you can play a little tambourine on this track > we're working on." > > < don't believe in dieties, a list of people who have said that they are > agnostic, and a list of people they're not sure about.>> > > That sounds really creepy to me. There are also sites that make lists of > Jews and homosexuals, and those sites are not exactly sponsored by B'nai > Brith or GLAAD if you know what I mean. > Again, couldn't they spend their time more usefully, like, I don't know, > digging sewage ditches in underdeveloped countries or working at a soup > kitchen or something? > > <> > > Once again, one's personal religious beliefs are exponentially more > personal and controversial than whether one chooses to inhale tobacco smoke. > So no, it's not *just* a fact sheet. It's potentially a blacklist. And just > because Linell said it doesn't mean it *automatically* has to go any further > than this list. > > <> > > Ask yourself this: Why would anyone want to know? > > < with him, he really wouldn't care.>> > > If you stopped Linnell on the street, you'd be invading his privacy, > something you don't seem to have a problem with. > > <> > > My question is: Don't *you* have bigger things to worry about than > making sure the whole world knows John Linnell's every public utterance? ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 23 Jul 2001 11:26:31 -0400 From: karinh@sterl.com Subject: Re:TMBG: Re: They Might Be Atheists Message-ID: <575970152@sterl.com> I think, as usual,the truth lies somewhere between these two polar opinions. As the Kid sees it, unless Linnell takes out a billboard on Times Square and a 30 second spot at halftime in the Superbowl declaring his atheism, he still retains the right to be a private person and not have people broadcasting his religious beliefs (or lack thereof) for him, without his knowledge or request. Which is true. Common decency and courtesy would dictate that people who understand his reticence and dislike of publicity would respect his wish to be left the hell alone. Especially over something as unimportant to anyone but himself as whether he believes in something as speculative and subjective as "god". But I think it's over-reacting to start pointing to McCarthy-style blacklists and Nazi pogroms as a possible outcome of Linnell's having been outed as an atheist. So maybe Pat Robertson watches the list, & now he won't ask TMBG to be the Christian Coalition's house band, that's about the worst-case scenario based on this little situation. I do think the Kid is reacting more violently on Linnell's behalf than Linnell himself would. Bottom line, it was a pointless & fairly tacky thing to do, but no more than that. No unconscionable betrayals, nothing worthy of indignant wrath. You're mostly right, Kid, but don't take it so seriously. It's not like that list is going to have people pounding on his door at 3 a.m., trying to convert him. It's a sucky thing to do on g.p., it doesn't have to be the Spanish Inquisition. Which, as everyone knows, no one ever expects..... Karin H ** FREE THE EXPO 67 ** ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 23 Jul 2001 11:05:55 -0500 From: Mitch Harding Subject: Re: TMBG: Re: They Might Be Atheists Message-ID: <3B5C4B63.F17CD5CD@tmbg.org> PosterKid1@aol.com wrote: > Honestly, I don't understand this urge on the part of some fans to take > it upon themselves to do things like this. Do they think they're doing the I don't understand the urges of a lot of people. So what? We're all different, it's the way it is. > That sounds really creepy to me. There are also sites that make lists of > Jews and homosexuals, and those sites are not exactly sponsored by B'nai > Brith or GLAAD if you know what I mean. I think your comparisons are extreme. There was a time, certainly, that being publicly known to be atheist woud cause you problems. I think it is safe to say that the time has largely passed. Sure there are individuals that might take issue, but I think a person's religion is not considered such a big deal anymore. > Again, couldn't they spend their time more usefully, like, I don't know, > digging sewage ditches in underdeveloped countries or working at a soup > kitchen or something? Please don't use arugments like these. If you apply this sort of reasoning, then we all should be doing those things. I shouldn't go to shows, I shouldn't play games, I shouldn't do anything except the most "useful" activities. That's crazy. > because Linell said it doesn't mean it *automatically* has to go any further > than this list. It is already further than this list. It was in a published interview, available to people off the list. Whether people like it or not, posting most information about public figures is not an invasion of privacy. Especially in cases like this, when the person states the fact openly in a public forum. >>It's just for anyone who wants to know. > Ask yourself this: Why would anyone want to know? I don't think there's any reason to ask this question. It is similar to the "I should be digging ditches" line of argument. Whenever I am curious about something I should have to justify this? Why do people publish biographies? Because for whatever reason, human beings are interested in each other. Why does People magazine sell so well? This type of an interest is not at all uncommon, and I don't see it as being reprehensible. (urge resisted to break into song) > If you stopped Linnell on the street, you'd be invading his privacy, > something you don't seem to have a problem with. This is not an invasion of privacy. It's what he said in a public forum. And I'm not even sure that stopping him on the street would really be an invasion of privacy, provided you didn't persist if he declined to talk to you. I agree it might not be very polite to stop him on the street, given that they're not crazy about random fan interaction, but that's a separate issue. And I don't think that has a lot of bearing on the current debate. It's not as though people are publishing secret facts about John Linnell, going through his dumpster, etc. John Linnell consented to the interview, he answered that particular question, and he didn't make a big deal about it. I think most evidence suggests that he does not consider this information to be top secret. > My question is: Don't *you* have bigger things to worry about than > making sure the whole world knows John Linnell's every public utterance? See my ditch-digging response. If I spent all my time worrying about "bigger things", my cat's litter would never get changed. Mitch! www.mitcharf.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 23 Jul 2001 12:17:10 -0400 From: lawrence solomon Subject: Re: TMBG: Re: They Might Be Atheists Message-ID: <3B5C4E06.53051B17@fruhead.com> you know, also, just to nitpick a little here, he never said specifically that he was an atheist. he answered "No" to the question "Do you believe in god?" but atheism is, rather than the lack of a belief in god, the specific believe that there is no god. so while that may have been what he meant, the phrasing doesn't necessarily indicate he's any more than agnostic... a lot of atheists do misphrase themselves that way, unfortunately. so it's possible that his name could end up on this list, and he'd see it and be like "But that's not what I said..." so I think we *should* be careful with it. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 23 Jul 2001 14:08:35 -0400 From: scratch Subject: Re: TMBG: Re: They Might Be Atheists Message-ID: <3B5C6823.8BE2A35C@the-pentagon.com> Organization: They Might Be Giants, Unofficially http://www.tmbg.org > I think, as usual,the truth lies somewhere between these two polar opinions. As the Kid sees it, unless Linnell > takes out a billboard on Times Square and a 30 second spot at halftime in the Superbowl declaring his atheism, > he still retains the right to be a private person and not have people broadcasting his religious beliefs (or lack > thereof) for him, without his knowledge or request. Which is true. Common decency and courtesy would > dictate that people who understand his reticence and dislike of publicity would respect his wish to be left the > hell alone. Especially over something as unimportant to anyone but himself as whether he believes in > something as speculative and subjective as "god". I agree with this, at least to some extent. That was my immediate reaction when I read the original post, as Linnell hadn't directly said that he's athiest. > But I think it's over-reacting to start pointing to McCarthy-style blacklists and Nazi pogroms as a possible > outcome of Linnell's having been outed as an atheist. So maybe Pat Robertson watches the list, & now he > won't ask TMBG to be the Christian Coalition's house band, that's about the worst-case scenario based on this > little situation. I do think the Kid is reacting more violently on Linnell's behalf than Linnell himself would. They wouldn't do it anyway, judging by that one story about them performing at a religious school or whatever. > Bottom line, it was a pointless & fairly tacky thing to do, but no more than that. No unconscionable betrayals, > nothing worthy of indignant wrath. You're mostly right, Kid, but don't take it so seriously. It's not like that list is > going to have people pounding on his door at 3 a.m., trying to convert him. It's a sucky thing to do on g.p., it > doesn't have to be the Spanish Inquisition. Nobody expects the Spanish Inquisition!! -scratch ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 23 Jul 2001 11:29:25 +0100 From: David Poppers Subject: Re: TMBG: Re: They Might Be Atheists Message-ID: <3B5BFC82.A2A013E9@earthlink.net> Organization: They Might Be Giants, Unofficially http://www.tmbg.org No, Atheism is a lack of belief in a god. A type of atheism is denial of the existence of God, sometimes known as strong or positive atheism. It's an oft misunderstood term, so don't feel too bad about it. I really don't understand what the big commotion is about putting Linnell's name on the list, it's not as though the information was obtained by pouring hot acid in his eyes, while using thumbscrews, on "the rack" and asking for an autograph. Despite Linnell's supposed nature as a "private individual," he's still a goddamn rock star who is on television, and is going to star in a movie. He's not even close to Bill Watterson's levels of hermit-ness. Miles away, in fact. For chrissakes, this man was one of People Magazine's ten most beautiful people, and he wrote an Op-Ed about it in the New York Times. Not only that, but I think knowledge of the Johns' atheism helps to understand their music, I think (as another atheist, at least). Kiss Me, Son of God makes much more sense when put into the context of their religious beliefs (or lack thereof), and so do many other songs. Some of you (PosterKid1, etc.) have questioned my motives for getting information on Linnell posted, postulating that it is a ploy to become a close friend of the Johns, etc. As a reply to this, let me quote TMBG's own song about fame: The Famous Polka The famous person wears the same size water skis as me She's got three cars, as many years I've lived in this city Her hair is blond and mine is brown, they both start with a B But when the phone inside her rib cage rings it's not for me But when the phone inside her rib cage rings it's not for me Hey Linnell wears the same size water skis as me. I think that's neat, dammit. Yes, it's a little greedy, but it makes me feel better about myself. And, is that so wrong? I think it's neat that Penn and Teller, Neil Gaiman, Ira Glass, Sarah Vowell, and Dave Foley are also atheists. In the same way that certain Christians like to be entertained by religious music, and environmentalists like to buy organic produce, I like things that I can relate to, and know that I am giving money to people who I agree with. On theymightbegiants.com, they take a dig at our "brand new funky "education" President." No doubt one could then conclude that the Johns are likely to not be registered Republicans. If one cared enough to boycott the Johns for being Atheists, they'd probably feel the same way about not being a Bushie, either. (Yeah, I know it's weak. Wanna make something of it?) Pi (P.S., I vaguely remember something about the Johns and Unitarian Universalism-- anyone know anything else?) lawrence solomon wrote: > > you know, also, just to nitpick a little here, he never said > specifically that he was an atheist. he answered "No" to the question > "Do you believe in god?" but atheism is, rather than the lack of a > belief in god, the specific believe that there is no god. so while that > may have been what he meant, the phrasing doesn't necessarily indicate > he's any more than agnostic... a lot of atheists do misphrase themselves > that way, unfortunately. > > so it's possible that his name could end up on this list, and he'd see > it and be like "But that's not what I said..." so I think we *should* be > careful with it. PosterKid1@aol.com wrote: > Honestly, I don't understand this urge on the part of some fans to take > it upon themselves to do things like this. Do they think they're doing the > artist a favor? Do they think John Linnell will call them up on the phone > and say, "Hey man, thanks for adding my name to the atheists list. You seem > really cool -- why don't you stop by the studio and hang with me and Flans, > just the three of us. Maybe you can play a little tambourine on this track > we're working on."* ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 23 Jul 2001 13:23:21 +0100 From: David Poppers Subject: TMBG: Oh, god, what have I done!!?!? Message-ID: <3B5C1738.45F6E75C@earthlink.net> Organization: They Might Be Giants, Unofficially http://www.tmbg.org This entire thread started with a discussion of "Re-Versed Lyrics." Now, the thread has come full circle, on http://www.memepool.com. Tired of having to recite your favorite bible passages in your head to keep "the demons of secular music" from corrupting you? Re-Versed Lyrics will let you sing along... with God! They have new lyrics for all your favorites, including Smells Like Teen Spirit, Smokin in the Boys Room, The Themesong to The Monkees and the ultra-secular Onward ChristianSoldiers. Think Weird Al Yankovic only without all the sex, drugs, and moral decay. to Religion by george Except, "the demons of secular music," is a link to tmbg.com. What have I done?! Oh lord, what have I done?!?!?!?! Pi. P.S. George, if you're reading this, say something. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 23 Jul 2001 16:36:59 -0500 From: "Lemur Lemurhead" Subject: Re: TMBG: Re: They Might Be Atheists Message-ID: > > That sounds really creepy to me. There are also sites that make >lists of > > Jews and homosexuals, and those sites are not exactly sponsored by B'nai > > Brith or GLAAD if you know what I mean. > >I think your comparisons are extreme. There was a time, certainly, that >being publicly known to be atheist woud cause you problems. I think it >is safe to say that the time has largely passed. Sure there are >individuals that might take issue, but I think a person's religion is >not considered such a big deal anymore. > I would rather have people know that I was gay and jewish before they started thinking of me as a christian. > > Again, couldn't they spend their time more usefully, like, I don't >know, > > digging sewage ditches in underdeveloped countries or working at a soup > > kitchen or something? > >Please don't use arugments like these. If you apply this sort of >reasoning, then we all should be doing those things. I shouldn't go to >shows, I shouldn't play games, I shouldn't do anything except the most >"useful" activities. That's crazy. > I think we can all admit that we don't *really* care about people in underdeveloped countries. or even poor people in america... I know a few people who do choose to spend their time helping out the underpriveledged, and they don't seem the type to play around on the internet much :) _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 23 Jul 2001 17:52:05 -0400 From: karinh@sterl.com Subject: Re[2]: TMBG: Re: They Might Be Atheists Message-ID: <572717709@sterl.com> >I would rather have people know that I was gay and jewish before they >started thinking of me as a christian. Wow, that was very well done! You just managed to insult and degrade 3 totally diverse groups of people without doing anything more than comparing one of them to the other two. So being christian is even worse than being gay or jewish, huh? Or is it worse than being gay And jewish?? These small distinctions are important.... Karin H ** FREE THE EXPO 67 ** ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 23 Jul 2001 22:31:39 From: "John Ferrer" Subject: Re: TMBG: Re: They Might Be Atheists Message-ID: ><< I personally think that anything a public figure states factually should >be available to be known by whoever wants to know.>> > > And I personally think that sometimes certain things should just >remain >within a certain circle of friends. What? It was a published interview. That automatically knocks it out of circle-of-friends area, doesn't it? Why this urge to spread around >information for no other reason than... it should be spread around? I don't see how it's being spread around. Nobody's conducting a mass mailing here. The purpose of the Internet is to hold information in its sweaty little hands until someone asks for it. Linnell said he was an Atheist, that's information, someone might want it. Surely >there are more constructive ways to spend one's time. That can always be said. It's perfectly natural for fans to discuss what they're fans of. It doesn't hurt anybody, and it's what they want to do. It's why I'm subscribed to a mailing list, and throughly enjoy getting a dozen e-mails every day telling me as much as I could possibly want to know about a band I really enjoy. > Honestly, I don't understand this urge on the part of some fans to >take >it upon themselves to do things like this. Do they think they're doing the >artist a favor? Do they think John Linnell will call them up on the phone >and say, "Hey man, thanks for adding my name to the atheists list. You >seem >really cool -- why don't you stop by the studio and hang with me and Flans, >just the three of us. Maybe you can play a little tambourine on this track >we're working on." What? Does anyone do anything for that reason? People make web sites, post song reviews, album reviews, concert reviews, movie reviews, book reviews, art critiques, whatever, for other people, not so the creator will think they're cool. Putting John Linnell's name on that list is just for other people, presumably other Atheists, to see and say, "Oh, well cool, that guy's one too." I honestly don't see how it's any different from lists of smokers, Jews, homosexuals, or vegetarians. Or Christians. Would you be opposed if his name was put on a list of Christians? Or Buddhists? Or chocolate-worshippers? > ><don't believe in dieties, a list of people who have said that they are >agnostic, and a list of people they're not sure about.>> > > That sounds really creepy to me. There are also sites that make lists >of >Jews and homosexuals, and those sites are not exactly sponsored by B'nai >Brith or GLAAD if you know what I mean. > Again, couldn't they spend their time more usefully, like, I don't >know, >digging sewage ditches in underdeveloped countries or working at a soup >kitchen or something? When was the last time you dug a ditch in an underdeveloped country? > ><> > > Once again, one's personal religious beliefs are exponentially more >personal and controversial than whether one chooses to inhale tobacco >smoke. Depends on who you're asking, doesn't it? I don't care about anyone's religious preference, but I'm extremely anti-smoking. And even if I don't care about anyone's religious preference, that doesn't mean I can't take comfort in knowing that someone whose work I like is on my side in that respect. No, it doesn't matter, he makes fantastic music whatever he's like in person, but it's human nature to want to know. Would you have a friend that you insisted on never knowing a thing about? I know Linnell has no interest in being a buddy to the collective fan, but it's the same thing. I wouldn't ask him about his personal life, but I'm glad he told somebody else about it, and because he did, it's mine and anyone else's right to know. >So no, it's not *just* a fact sheet. It's potentially a blacklist. Well, crikey, anything is potentially a blacklist. Anyone who seeks out this site just to hold everyone listed on it in contempt has much less of a life than someone who looks at it in general interest. And I don't think anyone's going to kick Linnell out of the country for not believing in God. There's a very large portion of Atheists living here, and not to go all debate-teamy, but the Constition very plainly protects us. It's not even arguable, like the sketchy Right to Bear Arms is. And just >because Linell said it doesn't mean it *automatically* has to go any >further >than this list. It already did. He didn't post it to the list. And the list is archived online, so that's just as dangerous. The article he said it in is available online too. I hope Linnell is hiding in his attic. At least we'll still have Mono Puff. > ><> > > Ask yourself this: Why would anyone want to know? I did. I assume whoever submitted it to the site did. And I assume the guy who made a site for it did. There's three, and I can quickly find something on the Internet that less people than that would want to know. But to be less vague and smart-alecky, it makes sense that an Atheist, an Agnostic, or a skeptical would want to see a site like this. Like it or not, people identify with celebrities. You find art that you like and maybe understand, and you know that you're on the same level with the artist. It's much easier than walking through the mall and asking everyone about their feelings on the Universe and seeing if they match up with yours. You then find out about the artist, because you're interested in how someone who may be very much like you or what you'd like to be goes about their life. Sometimes you don't agree with what they say or do, but sometimes you do, and religion is a very big confusion factor for humans, and if they're sitting around feeling guilty because they don't know if they believe in a higher power, they could go to this website and feel better. I don't think it's going to change anyone's mind, but it can maybe show them "what they already believe to be true." Again, it would be the exact same deal with a list of anything else, but especially a list for a group that is frequently frowned upon. So I hope that counts. > ><it >with him, he really wouldn't care.>> > > If you stopped Linnell on the street, you'd be invading his privacy, >something you don't seem to have a problem with. Yes I do. I would never intentionally do anything that I thought would invade anyone's privacy, but the only reason I would ever tell an interviewer I was an Atheist is if I didn't mind it if anyone knew. I wouldn't stop Linnell on the street, but even so, I've never heard him complain about HAVING fans who talk about him. I've never even heard him say he doesn't like talking to fans, just that he doesn't like the fact that fans talk to him as if he were an idol and not a human being, and that they don't usually want to have a real conversation. > ><> > > My question is: Don't *you* have bigger things to worry about than >making sure the whole world knows John Linnell's every public utterance? Again, no mass mailings going on here, and I don't think banner ads for celebatheists.com are going to pop up on Yahoo anytime soon. It would be hard to find this out if you weren't looking for it or if someone actually told you. So if this offends you, forget about it, enjoy the tunes, and don't go to the web site. _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 23 Jul 2001 18:35:24 -0600 From: "makebase" Subject: Re: TMBG: Re: They Might Be Atheists Message-ID: <9jigg6$1d4l$1@ussenterprise.ufp.org> Organization: They Might Be Giants, Unofficially http://www.tmbg.org Lemur Lemurhead wrote in message news:F169cjJxWY5pCxlICSs0000471e@hotmail.com... > > I would rather have people know that I was gay and jewish before they > started thinking of me as a christian. None of the rest of us who have commented on this thread have put anyone down for their beliefs. Don't be the first one to make this ugly. -- Shaun www.tmbg.cc ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 24 Jul 2001 05:46:55 From: "John Ferrer" Subject: TMBG: Tabs for I've Got A Fang Message-ID: If anyone has or knows where to find the tabs for I've Got A Fang, I need them before you even read this message. Quickly. Thanks a lot to anyone who can help. _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp ------------------------------ End of tmbg-list Digest #43-24 ******************************