Errors-To: owner-tmbg-digest@tmbg.org Reply-To: tmbg-digest@tmbg.org Sender: owner-tmbg-digest@tmbg.org Precedence: bulk From: owner-tmbg-digest@tmbg.org To: tmbg-digest@tmbg.org Subject: tmbg-list Digest #47-28 tmbg-list Digest, Volume 47, Number 28 Thursday, 29 November 2001 Today's Topics: TMBG: ok somebody had to ask it... Re: TMBG: My UK Tour Report - 3 cities, 3 days, 3 concerts Re:TMBG: too old Re[2]:TMBG: too old Re: TMBG: too old Re: TMBG: My UK Tour Report - 3 cities, 3 days, 3 concerts Re: TMBG: My UK Tour Report - 3 cities, 3 days, 3 concerts Re: TMBG: My UK Tour Report - 3 cities, 3 days, 3 concerts Re: TMBG: My UK Tour Report - 3 cities, 3 days, 3 concerts Re: TMBG: My UK Tour Report - 3 cities, 3 days, 3 concerts TMBG: Eat, sleep, breathe TMBG RE: TMBG: Eat, sleep, breathe TMBG Re: TMBG: Eat, sleep, breathe TMBG TMBG: Re: Eat, sleep, breathe TMBG Re: TMBG: My UK Tour Report - 3 cities, 3 days, 3 concerts Re: TMBG: My UK Tour Report - 3 cities, 3 days, 3 concerts Re: TMBG: gear inflation Re: TMBG: Eat, sleep, breathe TMBG Administrivia: If you wish to unsubscribe from this mailing send mail to tmbg-digest-request@tmbg.org for instructions on how to be automatically removed. --------------------------------------------------------------------- The views expressed herein are those of the individual authors. --------------------------------------------------------------------- tmbg-list is digested with Digest 3.5b (John Relph ). ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Gegatron@aol.com Message-ID: <3f.270bb15.2935ef6c@aol.com> Date: Wed, 28 Nov 2001 02:42:36 EST Subject: TMBG: ok somebody had to ask it... and i'm that somebody: Does anyone know the chords to Man its so loud in here? ------------------------------ Message-Id: Date: Wed, 28 Nov 2001 14:03:18 +0000 From: "Richard Hilton" Subject: Re: TMBG: My UK Tour Report - 3 cities, 3 days, 3 concerts So, here is my report of my 'tour' with TMBG. It started in London at the London Astoria (just off Oxford Street) on Thursday night with a major disaster. My daughter was meant to be coming with me to here first TMBG concert. Unfortunately she has been hit by the viral infection and was out for the count and couldn't make it. This was a bit of a disaster as I had told Kevin, who I have never met but who I email TMBG with, to look for me in my very very blue Sapphire Bullets T-Shirt and black fleece. I also told him I would be with an 18 year old female who would be wearing glasses, have very curly hair and answers to the name Clare. Needless to say we didn't make contact. Sorry Kevin! And since you're all asking, she's still not 100% but the Mink Car sweat shirt I brought for here in Sheffield certainly cheered here up! (1) None of the gigs appeared to be sold out. I've seen them three times before and each time it has been heaving and really crushed. For these concerts there was room to move and you felt you had your own little space. Although I would love to have had more people appreciate them, on a personal level I prefer it this way. (2) Maybe I'm showing my age but I just don't understand people who know TMBG and come along and just talk to each other through the concert. At Sheffield I stood right at the back and towards the end 2 drunken morons who clearly knew some of the song stood in front of me and just talked the whole time. As this wasn't bad enough they kept swaying towards each other when they wanted to talk so I had to keep moving to see the stage. In the end I had a polite but firm word with them which worked for a while. The women next to me thanked me saying she was about to say something much ruder. Complete idiots. I probably would have felt better if I decked them! (3) There were a lot of Americans in the audience, many living over here, who took the opportunity to see them. I talked to people from Seattle and Philadelphia. And they love living over here. Hopefully, I'm visiting New York between Xmas and the New Year for a short holiday so the least you can do is visit us - please. Here ends the advert from the British Tourist Board! (4) There were others like me, who were seeing them more than once on this Tour. (5) As the tour went on the two Johns appeared to get a lot more relaxed. By the third night (Manchester) John F was telling people not to leave their beer on the stage at the front and then nicking it when they did(!) much to the delight of the audience. John L also pushed his keyboard into the audience for us to play - has anyone every seen him do this before? John F does this with his guitar but I've never seen John L do this with his keyboard. Was this a first? Great fun. (6) Someone stole their alto (?) sax in Manchester (sorry, but Manchester is that sort of town!) so they couldn't play 'Yeah Yeah'. As I think it is a rubbish song in the first place I didn't mind even if they do play it very well. (7) We had the confetti canon every night! Worked well in London and Manchester but as the Sheffield venue had a ceiling of about 12 feet the confetti got caught up and it rather lost its impact. John F made some funny comments about how difficult it was to get 2 cannons onto a plane these days! (8) Great lighting system. Well I thought it was but I don't get out much so if someone else posts that it was rubbish I'll bow to his or her greater knowledge. (9) Bush were playing in Manchester the same night as TMBG. We had the bigger smiles on our faces afterwards. (10) Robot Parade is working up to be a great song sung slowly in a distorted voice by John F. The only version I have is very fast. Is there another slower version available? Robot Parade goes neatly into Shoehorn With Teeth which leads neatly into..... (11) a special mention to the Dans and especially Dan Hickey who got his name chanted in Manchester, much to the amusement of John L. His impression of the drummer in the Muppets always got a load cheer as did his Charlie Watts (Honky Tonk Women) and John Bonham (Communication Breakdown). Dan Miller appeared in sunglasses at the end of the Manchester gig to play Fingertips. Anyone ever seen him in sunglasses before? And has anyone noticed that Dan Weinkauf always comes on stage pre-concert to tune his bass, he doesn't leave it to the stage crew. (12) They were selling sweat shirts etc. and copies of Holidayland. I was talking to the women on the second night (Sheffield) and she told me they had sold all 60 (or was it 80) copies of Holidayland the first night. So I didn't get to buy one. Damm! The Mink Car sweat shirt is pretty cool but at #25 a touch expensive. (13) They had fun explaining to us British that Bangs is a type of haircut similar to a fringe. (14) I'll post set lists in the next few days. I got the actual set lists in Sheffield and Manchester and someone is sending me the London list. Special mention to Kevin Tihista's Red Terror as support band. Even they began to relax by the third gig and talk to us instead of just saying 'and the next number is*'. By Manchester Kevin Tihista even remembered to tell us who they were and that they were from Chicago! I'm sorry but if I was a struggling support act I'd be telling people who I was, the title of my new CD out and what the label it was on between each and every song. FYI they are Kevin Tihista's Red Terror, their CD is called 'Don't Breathe A Word', it's on Blanco Y Negro and their website is www.kevintihista.com. I've purchased it. So should you! So back to London, with only a 40 minute delay on Virgin trains (which will come as no surprise to anyone from the UK!). Today was my birthday, our daughter received letters from two Universities inviting her for interviews and I had a quiet day with my mother visiting a museum. It's late at night, I'm in my study writing this and everyone else is in bed asleep, I'm a year older but not much wiser and I'm listening to the Flying Pickets and their version of 'Smells like Teen Spirit'. And some people on this list think you can be too old to be a TMBG fan. I hope that when, like me, they are nearer 50 than 40 they still want to go to 3 concerts in 3 cities in 3 days by the same group. And that their daughter is well enough to make it to least one of them! Richard _____________________________________________________________________ This message has been checked for all known viruses by Star Internet delivered through the MessageLabs Virus Scanning Service. For further information visit http://www.star.net.uk/stats.asp or alternatively call Star Internet for details on the Virus Scanning Service. ------------------------------ Subject: Re:TMBG: too old Date: Wed, 28 Nov 2001 10:12:00 -0500 Message-ID: From: "Karin Highfield" You think you had it bad, sonny? Ha !! In MY day, it was Glenn Campbell, Tom Jones and Jay & the Americans, uphill, both ways. And we were grateful, because our parents had it even worse. They suffered through years of Doris Day and Tony Bennett in order to give us a better life. And we made the same sacrifices for the next generation... And now these young ingrates think they can consign us to the "too old to listen to TMBG" scrapyard? Ha !! again. They may be younger, but we're meaner. We've been to pain school; we can take it. Piss us off, & you'll be on Marc Anthony and Mandy Moore for a month... I'm younger than I'll ever be, and now I'm, umm, slightly less young.... Karin H That's all I remember, but I'm sure there's something else ____________________Reply Separator____________________ Subject: TMBG: too old Author: "Bryce" Date: 11/27/01 5:56 PM Yes, you hooligans, at 29 years, I'm too old to like TMBG. They're too dang loud, you call that music? Even when I manage to hear 'em screaming over all that noise, I can't understand what they're singin' about. "Other Handsome Brer Row," what the Sam Hill is that? Back in my day all we had to listen to was Lionel Richie barefoot in the snow every day and night, and we were grateful to have it! And now I'm older still, so you young scalawags put on yer punk purple toupees, I'll just sit in a corner and go bald, waitin' fer my pills. ;) Bryce ------------------------------ Subject: Re[2]:TMBG: too old Date: Wed, 28 Nov 2001 10:21:00 -0500 Message-ID: From: "Karin Highfield" Damn, for "remember", read "can think of". Senior moment.... Karin H ** FREE THE, OH HELL, WHAT WAS THE NAME OF THAT BUNCH? YOU KNOW THE ONES I'M TALKING ABOUT, A WHOLE BUNCH OF EM, SOMETHING WITH AN X.... DAMN ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 28 Nov 2001 15:14:53 -0600 Message-ID: <3C0553CD.5D5AB0B1@uswest.net> From: "James & Kimberly Mohan" Subject: Re: TMBG: too old It could be worse... this could be the Menudo or The Jets list.. ..or The Time. 'WttJ' J M TMBG Amb to MN Karin Highfield wrote: > You think you had it bad, sonny? > > Ha !! In MY day, it was Glenn Campbell, Tom Jones and Jay & the > Americans, > uphill, both ways. And we were grateful, because our parents had it > even worse. > They suffered through years of Doris Day and Tony Bennett in order to > give us a > better life. And we made the same sacrifices for the next generation... > And now these young ingrates think they can consign us to the "too old > to listen > to TMBG" scrapyard? Ha !! again. They may be younger, but we're > meaner. We've > been to pain school; we can take it. Piss us off, & you'll be on Marc > Anthony > and Mandy Moore for a month... > > I'm younger than I'll ever be, and now I'm, umm, slightly less young.... > > Karin H > That's all I remember, but I'm sure there's something else > > ____________________Reply Separator____________________ > Subject: TMBG: too old > Author: "Bryce" > Date: 11/27/01 5:56 PM > > > Yes, you hooligans, at 29 years, I'm too old to like TMBG. They're too > dang > loud, you call that music? Even when I manage to hear 'em screaming > over all > that noise, I can't understand what they're singin' about. "Other > Handsome > Brer Row," what the Sam Hill is that? Back in my day all we had to > listen to > was Lionel Richie barefoot in the snow every day and night, and we were > grateful to have it! And now I'm older still, so you young scalawags > put on > yer punk purple toupees, I'll just sit in a corner and go bald, waitin' > fer my > pills. > ;) > > Bryce ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 28 Nov 2001 15:24:28 -0600 Message-ID: <3C05560C.120B60A1@uswest.net> From: "James & Kimberly Mohan" Subject: Re: TMBG: My UK Tour Report - 3 cities, 3 days, 3 concerts > (12) They were selling sweat shirts etc. and copies of Holidayland. I was talking to the women on the second night (Sheffield) and she told me they had sold all 60 (or was it 80) copies of Holidayland the first night. So I didn't get to buy one. Damm! The Mink Car sweat shirt is pretty cool but at #25 a touch expensive. Yeah...when I saw Them in Minneapolis a couple of months back, I opted for the cool Dial-A-Song T @ $25 (the black with the white cuffs(?)), instead of the tour T @ $30. ------------------------------ From: "Nathan Mulac DeHoff" Subject: Re: TMBG: My UK Tour Report - 3 cities, 3 days, 3 concerts Date: Wed, 28 Nov 2001 22:45:02 +0000 Message-ID: Richard Hilton: >(6) Someone stole their alto (?) sax in Manchester (sorry, but Manchester >is that sort of town!) I'm really sorry and annoyed to hear that, though. Stupid people and their stealing. As for as what kind of sax it is, I'm not sure, but I don't think it's an alto. I'm pretty sure Linnell usually plays a baritone sax, but I really couldn't tell you what he plays during "Yeh Yeh." >so they couldn't play 'Yeah Yeah'. As I think it is a rubbish song in the >first place I didn't mind even if they do play it very well. A rubbish song? Yeh Yeh? To each his own, I guess... >(10) Robot Parade is working up to be a great song sung slowly in a >distorted voice by John F. The only version I have is very fast. Is there >another slower version available? It was an eMusic freebie some time ago, and it should be on "No!", if that ever gets released. >(12) They were selling sweat shirts etc. and copies of Holidayland. Has anyone actually bought Holidayland at a show? At the Town Hall concert, I noticed that the price sheet had the price listed as $15. I'm hoping that was a mistake; the $10 they're trying to charge at stores is already utterly ridiculous (and that's not even taking into account that most of it is old stuff). >The Mink Car sweat shirt is pretty cool but at #25 a touch expensive. What's the current pounds-to-dollars exchange rate? I THINK I paid $30 for mine, but I can't quite remember. -- May the light shine upon thee, Nathan DinnerBell@tmbg.org http://www.geocities.com/fablesto/ _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp ------------------------------ From: "Nathan Mulac DeHoff" Subject: Re: TMBG: My UK Tour Report - 3 cities, 3 days, 3 concerts Date: Wed, 28 Nov 2001 22:49:57 +0000 Message-ID: Jim Mohan: > > (12) They were selling sweat shirts etc. and copies of Holidayland. I >was talking to the women on the second night (Sheffield) and she told me >they had sold all 60 (or was it 80) copies of Holidayland the first night. >So I didn't get to buy one. Damm! The Mink Car sweat shirt is pretty cool >but at #25 a touch expensive. > >Yeah...when I saw Them in Minneapolis a couple of months back, I opted for >the cool Dial-A-Song T @ $25 (the black with the white cuffs(?)), instead >of the tour T @ $30. Is the black Dial-A-Song T-shirt the one with the list of songs? I remember being really disappointed when I saw that one. The text was too small to read very easily. Or are you talking about another shirt? -- May the light shine upon thee, Nathan DinnerBell@tmbg.org http://www.geocities.com/fablesto/ _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp ------------------------------ From: "Kate Sith" Subject: Re: TMBG: My UK Tour Report - 3 cities, 3 days, 3 concerts Date: Wed, 28 Nov 2001 18:00:59 -0500 Message-ID: I think it's the same one you're thinking of. ^_^ That's the one I got. I really like it! ^_^ It's too small for me, so it kinda looks stylish, and I love the white cuff thingies. It's a groovy-ass shirt, IMO. -Kate Sith Queen of Spades TMBG Ambassador to the State of Michigan Keeper of Ewan McGregor's Smile * ------------------------------------------------------------ "I'm gonna die if you touch me one more time Well, I guess that I'm gonna die no matter what." -J. Linnell "The greatest thing you'll ever learn is just to love and be loved in return." -The Magical Sitar "This pig-shaped bush frightens and confuses me." -G. Threepwood >From: "Nathan Mulac DeHoff" >Reply-To: "Nathan Mulac DeHoff" >To: tmbg-list@tmbg.org >Subject: Re: TMBG: My UK Tour Report - 3 cities, 3 days, 3 concerts >Date: Wed, 28 Nov 2001 22:49:57 +0000 > >Jim Mohan: >> > (12) They were selling sweat shirts etc. and copies of Holidayland. I >>was talking to the women on the second night (Sheffield) and she told me >>they had sold all 60 (or was it 80) copies of Holidayland the first night. >>So I didn't get to buy one. Damm! The Mink Car sweat shirt is pretty >>cool >>but at #25 a touch expensive. >> >>Yeah...when I saw Them in Minneapolis a couple of months back, I opted for >>the cool Dial-A-Song T @ $25 (the black with the white cuffs(?)), instead >>of the tour T @ $30. > >Is the black Dial-A-Song T-shirt the one with the list of songs? I >remember >being really disappointed when I saw that one. The text was too small to >read very easily. Or are you talking about another shirt? >-- >May the light shine upon thee, >Nathan >DinnerBell@tmbg.org >http://www.geocities.com/fablesto/ > > >_________________________________________________________________ >Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp > _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 28 Nov 2001 17:38:14 -0600 Message-ID: <3C057565.5F6F20B1@uswest.net> From: "James & Kimberly Mohan" Subject: Re: TMBG: My UK Tour Report - 3 cities, 3 days, 3 concerts Nathan Mulac DeHoff wrote: > Jim Mohan: > > > (12) They were selling sweat shirts etc. and copies of Holidayland. I > >was talking to the women on the second night (Sheffield) and she told me > >they had sold all 60 (or was it 80) copies of Holidayland the first night. > >So I didn't get to buy one. Damm! The Mink Car sweat shirt is pretty cool > >but at #25 a touch expensive. > > > >Yeah...when I saw Them in Minneapolis a couple of months back, I opted for > >the cool Dial-A-Song T @ $25 (the black with the white cuffs(?)), instead > >of the tour T @ $30. > > Is the black Dial-A-Song T-shirt the one with the list of songs? I remember > being really disappointed when I saw that one. The text was too small to > read very easily. Or are you talking about another shirt? That's the one! I personally think it's great! And the small print is a good reason for people to get close. ;) 'WttJ' Jim Mohan TMBG Amb to MN Shoehorn w/ Teeth ------------------------------ Message-Id: <200111290128.fAT1SgA175306@pimout1-int.prodigy.net> From: Subject: TMBG: Eat, sleep, breathe TMBG Date: Thu, 29 Nov 2001 01:48 +0000 I don't know whether this band is just soo rockin' or I'm just fixated with them because I'm new or both, but I can find references to TMBG in EVERYTHING!!!! I have noticed from many of the posts that it seems to be a commonality to many of us.... Just a funny thing....on Out of Jail there is a reference to a town called Xenia..I thought it was a made up name or something...definitely not a common name for sure.. I work at UPS as a supervisor, and last night I got a package that was from XENIA, OHIO...Is that weird or what? Anyone know anything about that? Jenn ------------------------------ From: "Amy :\)" Subject: RE: TMBG: Eat, sleep, breathe TMBG Date: Wed, 28 Nov 2001 21:08:14 -0500 Message-ID: <000201c1787a$b4b09860$6401a8c0@columbus.rr.com> Xenia is a city in Ohio southeast of Dayton. I've never been there, but when I drive from Toledo to Cincinnati, I always point out the exit sign for Xenia! The prefix xen- means "stranger" as in "xenophobe" (fear of strangers) Not sure if that's why that particular city name was used in the song, but it makes sense. To me at least. Amy :) ------------------------------ Message-ID: <3C05AD01.852CC0C8@pacificnet.net> Date: Wed, 28 Nov 2001 19:35:33 -0800 From: Bongo Organization: None Subject: Re: TMBG: Eat, sleep, breathe TMBG [Badly formed multipart message, contents not processed] ------------------------------ Message-ID: <001601c17896$69edbc60$912f2782@gorf> From: "John David Crafton" Subject: TMBG: Re: Eat, sleep, breathe TMBG Date: Wed, 28 Nov 2001 23:26:34 -0600 ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Wednesday, November 28, 2001 7:48 PM Subject: TMBG: Eat, sleep, breathe TMBG > I work at UPS as a supervisor, and last night I got a package that was from XENIA, OHIO...Is that weird or what? Anyone know anything about that? > > Jenn > Yeah, turns out it's a town in Ohio. go figure. _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Message-Id: <3.0.6.32.20011129002800.0081a160@fisticuffs.org> Date: Thu, 29 Nov 2001 00:28:00 -0500 From: mandyshekleton Subject: Re: TMBG: My UK Tour Report - 3 cities, 3 days, 3 concerts At 03:24 PM 11/28/01 -0600, James & Kimberly Mohan wrote: >> (12) They were selling sweat shirts etc. and copies of Holidayland. I was talking to the women on the second night (Sheffield) and she told me they had sold all 60 (or was it 80) copies of Holidayland the first night.. So I didn't get to buy one. Damm! The Mink Car sweat shirt is pretty cool but at #25 a touch expensive. > >Yeah...when I saw Them in Minneapolis a couple of months back, I opted for the cool Dial-A-Song T @ $25 (the black with the white cuffs(?)), instead of the tour T @ $30. Yowch. Are the shirts that expensive at *all* the shows now? I'm pretty sure at the beginning of the year, the sassy blue or red tour shirts were going for $15 or thereabouts. (anyone back me up on this?) Something like that. (I know that it was under $20, because that's the most I've ever paid for a shirt. But it said "GUIDED BY VOICES IS THE DEVIL" on the back! I wasn't *not* going to get that, even if it was $20 I probably should've been spending on...oh, food.) But, yeah. That's, shall we say, extortionate. -mandy -- http://heck.fisticuffs.org/ "i can't believe i came out of the coma for this shit!" - dave foley ------------------------------ Message-Id: <3.0.6.32.20011129003606.007d16c0@fisticuffs.org> Date: Thu, 29 Nov 2001 00:36:06 -0500 From: Meg Subject: Re: TMBG: My UK Tour Report - 3 cities, 3 days, 3 concerts At 12:28 AM 11/29/01 -0500, mandyshekleton wrote: >Yowch. Are the shirts that expensive at *all* the shows now? I'm pretty >sure at the beginning of the year, the sassy blue or red tour shirts were >going for $15 or thereabouts. (anyone back me up on this?) Something like >that. > >(I know that it was under $20, because that's the most I've ever paid for a >shirt. Actually, I think we might have paid $20 for those puppies. They were $25 by the McSwy's show, though, because our mutual friend Mr. Cohen was bitching about it and refused to buy one for that price. I can't confirm this, of course, because I am old and of little memory. Also, I don't think they would have raised the prices $10. $25 is a disgusting amount for a concert t-shirt, though. I love the kids to death, but that's really gross. Meg -- "If I die because people are stupid, don't give me a twenty-one-gun salute." (Cheryl Wagner) + http://fisticuffs.org + ------------------------------ Message-ID: <00b101c17899$00a94ff0$832d588a@visualnetworks.com> From: "Bryce" Subject: Re: TMBG: gear inflation Date: Thu, 29 Nov 2001 00:45:06 -0500 mandy : > Yowch. Are the shirts that expensive at *all* the shows > now? I'm pretty sure at the beginning of the year, the > sassy blue or red tour shirts were going for $15 or > thereabouts. (anyone back me up on this?) Something > like that. I hope not, I shelled out 20 clams for my red El Presidente at the Irving Plaza on January 27. Did I miss a mail-in rebate or something? Well, it was worth it anyway; that's a great shirt. Bryce ------------------------------ From: "Nathan Mulac DeHoff" Subject: Re: TMBG: Eat, sleep, breathe TMBG Date: Thu, 29 Nov 2001 06:45:31 +0000 Message-ID: Bongo: > > ....on Out of Jail there is a reference to a town called Xenia..I >thought it was a made up name or something...definitely not a common name >for sure.. > > I'm glad that someone else mentioned this. I grew up in Ohio not far >from Xenia ...although I never went there. I always had the impression that >it was a bit of a cabbage town. Camels have hard eyes, and dead men don't talk back. >We all thought of it as a somewhat weird name. Also, I think it known for a >big tornado hitting it in the 70's. Did it take over the world? > I never brought Xenia up on the list because I was afraid everyone >would scream at me that every state in the US has at least 10 Xenias in it. >After doing a half-assed web search it seems that Ohio might have the >world's only Xenia. Whether or not that's true, it's probably the most famous one. > > I work at UPS as a supervisor > > > > Do they call you "Frosty"? I don't know, but I was UNsupervised. I had a real good time, too, until I hit my head. -- May the light shine upon thee, Nathan DinnerBell@tmbg.org http://www.geocities.com/fablesto/ _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp ------------------------------ End of tmbg-list Digest #47-28 ******************************