Errors-To: owner-tmbg-digest@tmbg.org Reply-To: tmbg-digest@tmbg.org Sender: owner-tmbg-digest@tmbg.org Precedence: bulk From: owner-tmbg-digest@tmbg.org To: tmbg-digest@tmbg.org Subject: tmbg-list Digest #65-11 tmbg-list Digest, Volume 65, Number 11 Wednesday, 18 June 2003 Today's Topics: Re: TMBG: Off topic: New FoW album. Re: TMBG: Off topic: New FoW album. Re: TMBG: Off topic: New FoW album. Re: TMBG: Off topic: New FoW album. Re: TMBG: Off topic: New FoW album. Re: TMBG: Mink Car and the new FoW album. Re: TMBG: Mink Car and the new FoW album. Re: TMBG: Their new album sucks! (was Off topic: New FoW album.) Re: TMBG: Mink Car and the new FoW album. Administrivia: If you wish to unsubscribe from this mailing send mail to tmbg-digest-request@tmbg.org for instructions on how to be automatically removed. --------------------------------------------------------------------- The views expressed herein are those of the individual authors. --------------------------------------------------------------------- tmbg-list is digested with Digest 3.5b (John Relph ). ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "John Ferrer" Subject: Re: TMBG: Off topic: New FoW album. Date: Tue, 17 Jun 2003 12:59:48 -0400 Message-ID: More importantly, he should definately not produce TMBG. TMBG should produce him, then maybe this new album wouldn't suck so much. I'd love to erase Adam Schlesinger's grotesque overproducing from Mink Car so I could bear to listen to it more than twice a year. >From: Russ Woods >Reply-To: Russ Woods >To: tmbg-list@tmbg.org >Subject: TMBG: Off topic: New FoW album. >Date: Fri, 13 Jun 2003 15:26:03 -0500 > >> >> >>>Anyone think the new Fountains of >>>Wayne album is just more of the same and he should concentrate on >>>producing TMBG? >> >> >Are you serious? The new album is anything but more of the same. I mean, >they actually tried styles on this album other than power pop. They've even >got a country song on there! Sure, if you didn't like the album, that's >fine, but I don't think anyone can call it "more of the same." > _________________________________________________________________ Help STOP SPAM with the new MSN 8 and get 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail ------------------------------ Message-ID: <000c01c33502$5245aad0$0a0110ac@CHARLIE> From: "Charlie Miller" Subject: Re: TMBG: Off topic: New FoW album. Date: Tue, 17 Jun 2003 14:57:37 -0400 I'm not really sure I agree here...I like the new fow album quite alot, and Adam Schlesinger is all over it...perhaps is is not the production that makes mink car unbearable? I dunno, its easy to blame schlesinger or m. doughty or a number of other people for mink car, but I think for better or for worse it is ultimately tmbg's own work. Charlie Miller ----- Original Message ----- From: "John Ferrer" To: Sent: Tuesday, June 17, 2003 12:59 PM Subject: Re: TMBG: Off topic: New FoW album. > More importantly, he should definately not produce TMBG. TMBG should produce > him, then maybe this new album wouldn't suck so much. I'd love to erase Adam > Schlesinger's grotesque overproducing from Mink Car so I could bear to > listen to it more than twice a year. ------------------------------ Message-ID: <20030617192417.47790.qmail@web41811.mail.yahoo.com> Date: Tue, 17 Jun 2003 12:24:17 -0700 (PDT) From: Greg Brookens Subject: Re: TMBG: Off topic: New FoW album. hold on a second... mink car in unbearable? how come no one told me!! it aint my favorite but i still like it as much as most of their stuff. It kicks the hell outta No! Now that mink car is out does that mean that everyone thinks Factory Showroom is ok. Seems the latest TMBG album is always the worst to some of you guys. Everyone hated John Henry until Showroom came out. Now it seems most people think it's pretty good and don't hate it. By the way, factory showroom is their best album... there i said it. __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? SBC Yahoo! DSL - Now only $29.95 per month! http://sbc.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Message-ID: <3EEF6DEE.1040504@fruhead.com> Date: Tue, 17 Jun 2003 15:37:18 -0400 From: lawrence solomon Subject: Re: TMBG: Off topic: New FoW album. Greg Brookens wrote: > Now that mink car is out does that mean > that everyone thinks Factory Showroom is ok. > Seems the latest TMBG album is always the worst to > some of you guys. I'm not sure where people get this highly inaccurate idea from. I'll still hate Mink Car when the next album comes out. and I'll still think Another First Kiss is their worst song unless they put something even more horrendous on the new album. It has nothing at all to do with sequence, purely quality. Factory Showroom was a much weaker effort than John Henry. it had fewer songs, but they were longer, and had more pointless guitar solos, especially in Flans' songs. I still don't particularly like the album, and I still won't listen to most of the songs on it, but since it has come out, Severe Tire Damage and Mink Car have both, in turn, replaced it as the worst TMBG album. not because they were the "new releases" but because I thought they truly were awful. (STD is way worse than Mink Car, too. what the hell were they thinking?) > Everyone hated John Henry until > Showroom came out. Now it seems most people think > it's pretty good and don't hate it. I never hated it. I thought it was their best album the day it came out. everyone I've ever talked to who likes John Henry has liked it from the beginning. you make it sound like there's some sort of knee-jerk reaction to the new albums, which there clearly isn't. ------------------------------ From: Kaylum@aol.com Message-ID: <1eb.b18fc7a.2c20ce1e@aol.com> Date: Tue, 17 Jun 2003 16:03:42 EDT Subject: Re: TMBG: Off topic: New FoW album. In a message dated 6/17/2003 3:38:43 PM Eastern Daylight Time, zaph@fruhead.com writes: > > Everyone hated John Henry until > >Showroom came out. Now it seems most people think > >it's pretty good and don't hate it. > > I never hated it. I thought it was their best album the day it came > out. everyone I've ever talked to who likes John Henry has liked it > from the beginning. I discovered TMBG in mid-1995, and while I don't know if this list was around then, I do know that there was still quite a bit of John Henry bashing on the newsgroup. > > you make it sound like there's some sort of knee-jerk reaction to the > new albums, which there clearly isn't. Eh, maybe not across the board, but there are always a few "worst album ever" comments after each new release (I'm sure this isn't unique to TMBG, though). People can complain about quality all they want, but it all comes down to personal taste. In TMBG's case, I think it's impossible for them to please everyone because they try to make each album so different. John Henry is their first big departure from being a duo, Factory Showroom has less songs than any TMBG album that came before it, STD (which I will agree is the weakest) is a really odd patchwork of studio, live, and radio recordings, Mink Car has a lot of danc-y, techno-ish songs, and NO is for kids. I can't prove it, but I suspect that a lot of the people who are continuously disappointed are old timers who keep hoping they return to the Lincoln or Apollo 18 sound. I'm glad I came relatively late to the game so I can enjoy each incarnation of the band. I saw Neil Young recently, and he played all new material in his main set, saying at one point, "Change keeps me going." I'm sure that's just as true of TMBG. Having said all that, I'm really excited that Flans has said that they are going to try for a more cohesive sound for their next album. The fact that they're being so tight-lipped about it has really piqued my curiosity! Kay [Attachment omitted, unknown MIME type or encoding (text/html)] Charlie Miller: >I'm not really sure I agree here...I like the new fow album quite alot, and >Adam Schlesinger is all over it...perhaps is is not the production that >makes mink car unbearable? I dunno, its easy to blame schlesinger or m. >doughty or a number of other people for mink car, but I think for better or >for worse it is ultimately tmbg's own work. Well, the Johns have admitted that they let the producers have more control over Mink Car than they had had on previous albums, so Schlesinger and the others might be at least partially to blame for the way the album turned out. As a general rule, though, it's common for people to want to find a scapegoat, and producers tend to be perfect fodder for this. I mean, if you've known and loved the Johns for years, it can't possibly be THEIR fault that the new album isn't that great, right? It must be the fault of these producers! I'm not saying I agree with this line of reasoning, just saying that it might be part of why people who don't like Mink Car tend to put the blame on the producers, rather than on the band. I'm sure Mink Car's suckiness (if, indeed, you do think it sucks) was a group effort. If we insist on scapegoating, though, how about this? Mink Car sucks because of Henry Linnell! If John L. weren't so busy trying to take care of a kid, he would have been able to put out better songs, and whip that loser Flansburgh into shape! Nathan, who realizes this is nonsense, and that the whole thing is really Flans's brother's fault --I mean, can you ever trust a guy in a commune? He MUST be to blame! _________________________________________________________________ The new MSN 8: advanced junk mail protection and 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail From owner-tmbg-list@tmbg.org Tue Jun 17 17:07:12 2003 Received: from ussenterprise.ufp.org (majordom@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ussenterprise.ufp.org (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5HL7BaT097890 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Tue, 17 Jun 2003 17:07:11 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by ussenterprise.ufp.org (8.12.9/8.12.9/Submit) id h5HL7BI3097889 for tmbg-list-outgoing; Tue, 17 Jun 2003 17:07:11 -0400 (EDT) Received: from smtp.vzavenue.net (smtp.vzavenue.net [66.171.59.140]) by ussenterprise.ufp.org (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5HL7BaS097884 for ; Tue, 17 Jun 2003 17:07:11 -0400 (EDT) Received: from fruhead.com ([63.100.163.51]) by smtp.vzavenue.net (Mirapoint Messaging Server MOS 3.2.4-GA) with ESMTP id AQS34494 (AUTH zaph); Tue, 17 Jun 2003 17:07:07 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <3EEF82FA.4000609@fruhead.com> Date: Tue, 17 Jun 2003 17:07:06 -0400 From: lawrence solomon User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (compatible; MSIE 5.01; Windows NT 5.0; DigExt) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 CC: tmbg-list@tmbg.org Subject: Re: TMBG: Mink Car and the new FoW album. References: In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-tmbg-list@tmbg.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: lawrence solomon Nathan Mulac DeHoff wrote: the > blame on the producers, rather than on the band. I'm sure Mink Car's > suckiness (if, indeed, you do think it sucks) was a group effort. If we definitely a group effort. I mean, the songwriting is still John and John. the choice of tracks is still theirs. and the choice of arrangement is probably mostly theirs and the Dans, too. the weird sax breaks in I've Got a Fang and My Man aren't the fault of the producers. (at least not entirely) I think a lot of the blame can be placed simply on the fact that there was no consistency to the production, sometimes even within a single song (the bridge of Hopeless Bleak Despair was apparently written and produced at a different time and in a different location from the rest of the song). they didn't really get to go into the studio for a month and record an album. and the result was a sub-par album. > Nathan, who realizes this is nonsense, and that the whole thing is really > Flans's brother's fault > --I mean, can you ever trust a guy in a commune? He MUST be to blame! commune? I thought he was in a cult. From owner-tmbg-list@tmbg.org Tue Jun 17 17:20:14 2003 Received: from ussenterprise.ufp.org (majordom@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ussenterprise.ufp.org (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5HLKEaT098458 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Tue, 17 Jun 2003 17:20:14 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by ussenterprise.ufp.org (8.12.9/8.12.9/Submit) id h5HLKE2k098457 for tmbg-list-outgoing; Tue, 17 Jun 2003 17:20:14 -0400 (EDT) Received: from hotmail.com (bay2-f56.bay2.hotmail.com [65.54.247.56]) by ussenterprise.ufp.org (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5HLKDaS098451 for ; Tue, 17 Jun 2003 17:20:13 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Tue, 17 Jun 2003 14:20:07 -0700 Received: from 130.156.140.2 by by2fd.bay2.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Tue, 17 Jun 2003 21:19:57 GMT X-Originating-IP: [130.156.140.2] X-Originating-Email: [xornom@hotmail.com] From: "Nathan Mulac DeHoff" To: tmbg-list@tmbg.org Subject: Re: TMBG: Their new album sucks! (was Off topic: New FoW album.) Date: Tue, 17 Jun 2003 21:19:57 +0000 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 17 Jun 2003 21:20:07.0971 (UTC) FILETIME=[3A45C730:01C33516] Sender: owner-tmbg-list@tmbg.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: "Nathan Mulac DeHoff" Lawrence: >Greg Brookens wrote: > > > Now that mink car is out does that mean > > that everyone thinks Factory Showroom is ok. > > Seems the latest TMBG album is always the worst to > > some of you guys. > >I'm not sure where people get this highly inaccurate idea from. Maybe it's inaccurate for you, but I think it's often true. When an album is new, it takes time to grow on you (or it does for me, anyway). In my case, I bought the first six albums in short order, so Severe Tire Damage and Mink Car were the only two that really were "new TMBG albums" to me. I also think they were two of the weakest albums they've released, but maybe I'll consider them "classics" after they have a few more albums out (assuming they ever do). Who knows? Of course, the exact opposite is sometimes also true. I'll sometimes think a band's new album is their BEST, because it's still new to me and I'm excited to hear it. Once the novelty wears off, I can more accurately rank it among the other albums in the band's catalog. >It has nothing at all to do with sequence, purely quality. Actually, I don't think the original argument was based on sequence so much as familiarity. I could be wrong about that, but familiarity and novelty are primarily what I'M arguing, anyway. Nathan _________________________________________________________________ Add photos to your e-mail with MSN 8. Get 2 months FREE*. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/featuredemail From owner-tmbg-list@tmbg.org Tue Jun 17 17:24:26 2003 Received: from ussenterprise.ufp.org (majordom@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ussenterprise.ufp.org (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5HLOQaT098650 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Tue, 17 Jun 2003 17:24:26 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by ussenterprise.ufp.org (8.12.9/8.12.9/Submit) id h5HLOQba098649 for tmbg-list-outgoing; Tue, 17 Jun 2003 17:24:26 -0400 (EDT) Received: from hotmail.com (bay2-f60.bay2.hotmail.com [65.54.247.60]) by ussenterprise.ufp.org (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5HLOPaS098638 for ; Tue, 17 Jun 2003 17:24:26 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Tue, 17 Jun 2003 14:24:20 -0700 Received: from 130.156.140.2 by by2fd.bay2.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Tue, 17 Jun 2003 21:24:18 GMT X-Originating-IP: [130.156.140.2] X-Originating-Email: [xornom@hotmail.com] From: "Nathan Mulac DeHoff" To: tmbg-list@tmbg.org Subject: Re: TMBG: Mink Car and the new FoW album. Date: Tue, 17 Jun 2003 21:24:18 +0000 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 17 Jun 2003 21:24:20.0470 (UTC) FILETIME=[D0C61160:01C33516] Sender: owner-tmbg-list@tmbg.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: "Nathan Mulac DeHoff" Lawrence: > > Nathan, who realizes this is nonsense, and that the whole thing is >really > > Flans's brother's fault > > --I mean, can you ever trust a guy in a commune? He MUST be to blame! > >commune? I thought he was in a cult. Eh, I honestly don't remember. He's in one or the other, or possibly both. Does anyone know the details? Nathan _________________________________________________________________ Help STOP SPAM with the new MSN 8 and get 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail ------------------------------ End of tmbg-list Digest #65-11 ******************************