Errors-To: owner-tmbg-digest@tmbg.org Reply-To: tmbg-digest@tmbg.org Sender: owner-tmbg-digest@tmbg.org Precedence: bulk From: owner-tmbg-digest@tmbg.org To: tmbg-digest@tmbg.org Subject: tmbg-list Digest #65-25 tmbg-list Digest, Volume 65, Number 25 Sunday, 31 August 2003 Today's Topics: TMBG: Re: Re: Re: My Man... Gently down the stream.... Re: TMBG: Re: Re: Re: My Man... Gently down the stream.... Re: TMBG: Re: Re: Re: My Man... Gently down the stream.... Re: TMBG: Re: Re: Re: My Man... Gently down the stream.... Re: TMBG: Re: Re: Re: My Man... Gently down the stream.... Administrivia: If you wish to unsubscribe from this mailing send mail to tmbg-digest-request@tmbg.org for instructions on how to be automatically removed. --------------------------------------------------------------------- The views expressed herein are those of the individual authors. --------------------------------------------------------------------- tmbg-list is digested with Digest 3.5b (John Relph ). ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Olaf" Subject: TMBG: Re: Re: Re: My Man... Gently down the stream.... Date: Sat, 30 Aug 2003 11:05:20 -0700 Message-ID: <000001c36f21$4676f1b0$12fe2f04@olafp0d413sb8n> Hi! Happy Saturday! > Wouldn't a lot of songs fit into more than one category (or > species), though? YEah, I suppose they would, it was just a thought. > Was TMBG ever that commercial? Regardles, what is it about > Mink Car that you think is a return to a more classic TMBG sound? Yeah, I understand what you're saying, but the truth is, they were once much more commercial than they are now. They used to do MTV, Radio promotions, I mean they were viable to a much larger audience in the early nineties. MC is I think a fairly obvious step back from the sound of FS or JH. Many of the songs are reminiscent of Flood, Bangs, Sombrero, My Man, WUFTM, and others to a lesser extent. They even went back a used some producers from Flood. Even AMG noticed this shift in their review, and you know if they noticed it, it's gotta be fairly prominent. But don't take my word, just listen to arrangements, programmed drums, and mic choice on the disk in comparison to Flood or JH. Now I'm a musician myself, so I look for these things, and I'm probably fairly unique in that. People always tell me I find the strangest things in songs, so this may be all in my head. But in my head I think I'm right! > Of course, the latter was a single, and I remember hearing > that they were going to make the former one as well, but I > don't know that they ever did. Well, Birdhouse was a single, Ana Ng Was a single, it's hard to find two more obscure subjects for pop songs, or more obtuse lyrics to get there. By comparison, Mislih is straightforward parody, and not a particularly deep parody either. And it's certainly not as original a concept as Istanbul or Crane. (Just listen to Heywood Banks' "The Music's Too Loud" which is basically the same topic, and a similar song from 15 years earlier, I'm sure there are others.) And boy does that drum track get old. Bangs, on the other hand, is a unique and cute concept, though it's not a very deep reading of the subject and musically it's very simple. I don't think Singles have to be simpler songs than others. But I think that's what they were going for with those two. > I didn't think TMBG usually made albums with a market in > mind, No! being a special case. Well, I think it would be tough for any musician to make an album without considering the market their shooting for. I think J and J have been tailoring their sound since Lincoln. Notice the lack of country songs since the Pink album. Or the lack of sampled voices. Actually, you could probably nail the market for each album without thinking about it too much. Let's see, Pink is for the New York Art Scene of the day; Linc is a widening of that sound to a more mainstream level for college kids with longer songs, straigter instrumentation. Flood is a mainstream read of that sound, with a fairly single sound throughout, and a good continuity song-to-song marketed to everyone. A18 is an adult read of that flood sound, with some paranoia thrown in, aiming for the same Flood market, but missing it in an attempt to Grow the sound. JH is an attempt to market to college kids in 1994. Grungy and Bandy, it mostly succeeds on this front. Check Stompbox for the hardest sound they've done (I think). FS is trying to reassert themselves to a more adult market, (Longer songs, shorter setlist, only 'nice' songs) and only succeeding sometimes. Finally Mink Car is an attempt to sheen up the image, market to yuppie hipsters (yo, yo yo yo.) who like shag rugs, soft ballads and wierd musical experiments. I don't know the sales of that record, but I don't honestly think enough people like that exist to make it successful. Just play anyone you know AFK then Fang, and see what their reaction is. I bet you 99% of people don't go "Oh, Cool, what an interesting contrast!". So, How'd I do? Sounds pretty good to me, I'd like to hear your thoughts. Actually, I'd be happy just to know that anyone finished reading my treatise! Send me an email if you get this far! I'm going to the beach. -Olaf Oh, boy am I gonna get crap for calling FS all 'nice' songs. "But there's ADVIL in it! ADVIL! That's a drug!" ------------------------------ From: Kaylum@aol.com Message-ID: <195.1f0b4826.2c82445c@aol.com> Date: Sat, 30 Aug 2003 14:18:04 EDT Subject: Re: TMBG: Re: Re: Re: My Man... Gently down the stream.... Hey, Olaf! I agree that Mink Car does sort of have a lot in common with Flood. In fact, and you might know this, but "Hovering Sombrero" was actually written during the Flood era. As for hipsters digging the contrast between songs like "Another First Kiss" and "I've Got a Fang," that's true to some extent, but it can also be an off-putting liability for others. I have a friend who works in a record store who says when he plahed Mink Car and AFK came on, people started asking him who that was and where they could get that cd. Then when IGAF came on, they refused to believe it was the same band, hehe. Good job on the analysis! Kay [Attachment omitted, unknown MIME type or encoding (text/html)] Olaf: >Hi! Happy Saturday! And a happy Saturday to you, too. > > Was TMBG ever that commercial? Regardles, what is it about > > Mink Car that you think is a return to a more classic TMBG sound? > >Yeah, I understand what you're saying, but the truth is, they were once >much more commercial than they are now. They used to do MTV, Radio >promotions, I mean they were viable to a much larger audience in the >early nineties. But how much of that is due to a change in TMBG's sound? MTV, especially, was more open to less mainstream music back in the day, and I kind of get the feeling that their waning interest in TMBG was more a result of a change on their part than on TMBG's, combined with the fact that it's rare for commercial TV or radio to promote a band for very long, unless that band sells millions of records, and sometimes not even then. It might be that the mainstream abandoned TMBG, rather than the other way 'round. >MC is I think a fairly obvious step back from the sound >of FS or JH. Many of the songs are reminiscent of Flood, Bangs, >Sombrero, My Man, WUFTM, and others to a lesser extent. They even went >back a used some producers from Flood. Even AMG noticed this shift in >their review, and you know if they noticed it, it's gotta be fairly >prominent. Yeah, I think you might have a point there. >By comparison, Mislih is straightforward parody, and not a particularly >deep parody either. How much of that is due to the dance beats, though? I don't think it came across as parody before they were added. Even with the dance beats, though, I think calling it "a parody of dance music" is dismissive; there's more to it than that. It wouldn't have been my choice for a single, but I don't think Mink Car really has an obvious single the way TMBG's early albums did. > > I didn't think TMBG usually made albums with a market in > > mind, No! being a special case. > >Well, I think it would be tough for any musician to make an album >without considering the market their shooting for. I think J and J have >been tailoring their sound since Lincoln. Notice the lack of country >songs since the Pink album. Cowtown? Lucky Ball And Chain? Unrelated Thing? Counterfeit Faker? (Granted, the latter was never released on something that was actually in music stores.) >Actually, you could probably nail the market for each album without >thinking about it >too much. Probably, but how much of that is intentional? I don't know; maybe there's more marketing involved than I want to think, but I like to believe the Johns when they say they primarily do what they want. >Finally Mink Car is an attempt to sheen up the >image, market to yuppie hipsters (yo, yo yo yo.) who like shag rugs, >soft ballads and wierd musical experiments. I don't know the sales of >that record, but I don't honestly think enough people like that exist to >make it successful. I'm sure plenty of them EXIST, but they probably don't buy TMBG records. >Send me an email if you get this far! I did. Nathan DinnerBell@tmbg.org http://vovat.blogspot.com/ _________________________________________________________________ Get MSN 8 and help protect your children with advanced parental controls. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/parental From owner-tmbg-list@tmbg.org Sat Aug 30 21:21:59 2003 Received: from ussenterprise.ufp.org (majordom@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ussenterprise.ufp.org (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h7V1Lx8i048746 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Sat, 30 Aug 2003 21:21:59 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by ussenterprise.ufp.org (8.12.9/8.12.9/Submit) id h7V1Lxue048745 for tmbg-list-outgoing; Sat, 30 Aug 2003 21:21:59 -0400 (EDT) Received: from post.webmailer.de (natsmtp00.webmailer.de [192.67.198.74]) by ussenterprise.ufp.org (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h7V1Lw8h048740 for ; Sat, 30 Aug 2003 21:21:58 -0400 (EDT) Received: from Bb78d.pppool.de (Bb78d.pppool.de [213.7.183.141]) by post.webmailer.de (8.12.9/8.8.7) with ESMTP id h7V1Lnkh001670 for ; Sun, 31 Aug 2003 03:21:51 +0200 (MEST) Date: Sun, 31 Aug 2003 03:22:26 +0100 From: Utz Grimminger X-Mailer: The Bat! (v1.61) Personal X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Message-ID: <1439384353.20030831032226@mandoline.de> To: tmbg-list@tmbg.org Subject: Re: TMBG: Re: Re: Re: My Man... Gently down the stream.... In-Reply-To: <000001c36f21$4676f1b0$12fe2f04@olafp0d413sb8n> References: <000001c36f21$4676f1b0$12fe2f04@olafp0d413sb8n> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-tmbg-list@tmbg.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: Utz Grimminger Hi, >> Was TMBG ever that commercial? Regardles, what is it about >> Mink Car that you think is a return to a more classic TMBG sound? > Yeah, I understand what you're saying, but the truth is, they were > once much more commercial than they are now. First thought that came to my mind: what is commercial at all? The stuff that sells best? I have to confess I'm a little into statistics, and so I did some. (If you are bored by statistics, skip this mail.) My question was: what TMBG record sells best? I found that amazon.de gives a sales rank for their articles, so I clicked my way through and compiled a list of TMBG's best sold records (as recorded by amazon.de, 03-08-31). Here it is: Title amazon.de Sales Rank 1. They Got Lost 8.504 2. Boss Of Me (EP) 21.604 3. Flood 22.146 4. Dial-A-Song 25.498 5. Lincoln 26.138 6. In Holidayland (EP) 35.795 7. Factory Showroom 39.019 8. Severe Tire Damage 44.940 9. Then 46.598 10. Mink Car 52.091 11. No! 52.094 12. Pink Album 54.661 13. Man It's So Loud (EP) 63.589 14. Apollo 18 120.515 15. Miscellaneous T 120.896 16. John Henry 142.716 A few remarks: - You might think TGL does quite good because it's only available online - in fact, TGL is in stores in Germany (while No! is not - never seen it at least). - Apollo 18 is misspelled on amazon.de, so it may be that some people trying to buy it may not find it. - Lincoln, Pink Album and Misc T are of course doubled by Then. - And, of course, new stuff is usually supposed to sell better than old stuff. On the other hand: we didn't have brand new stuff in the last months, so this effect should not be too big for this list. If you agree that stuff that sells best is the most commercial stuff, "They Got Lost" is the most commercial TMBG album for the german audience - and "John Henry" the most uncommercial album. I suppose it was intended to be the other way round :-) My thoughts on it: A lot depends on what concurrence you have for a special market. JH aiming at a college rock audience? I agree. There are lots of bands aiming at that market, and JH simply is not oustanding for it. The market for...err...unusual songs with unusual sounds and unusual topics is much smaller? I agree as well. But IMHO this is what TMBG are best at, their work for that market is truly outstanding. All the best, Utz From owner-tmbg-list@tmbg.org Sat Aug 30 21:57:10 2003 Received: from ussenterprise.ufp.org (majordom@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ussenterprise.ufp.org (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h7V1vA8i049733 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Sat, 30 Aug 2003 21:57:10 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by ussenterprise.ufp.org (8.12.9/8.12.9/Submit) id h7V1vAhs049731 for tmbg-list-outgoing; Sat, 30 Aug 2003 21:57:10 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ussenterprise.ufp.org (bicknell@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ussenterprise.ufp.org (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h7V1v98i049725 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Sat, 30 Aug 2003 21:57:09 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from bicknell@localhost) by ussenterprise.ufp.org (8.12.9/8.12.9/Submit) id h7V1v9Xb049724 for tmbg-list@tmbg.org; Sat, 30 Aug 2003 21:57:09 -0400 (EDT) Date: Sat, 30 Aug 2003 21:57:09 -0400 From: Leo Bicknell To: tmbg-list@tmbg.org Subject: Re: TMBG: Re: Re: Re: My Man... Gently down the stream.... Message-ID: <20030831015709.GA49576@ussenterprise.ufp.org> Mail-Followup-To: tmbg-list@tmbg.org References: <000001c36f21$4676f1b0$12fe2f04@olafp0d413sb8n> <1439384353.20030831032226@mandoline.de> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <1439384353.20030831032226@mandoline.de> Organization: United Federation of Planets X-PGP-Key: http://www.ufp.org/~bicknell/ Sender: owner-tmbg-list@tmbg.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: Leo Bicknell In a message written on Sun, Aug 31, 2003 at 03:22:26AM +0100, Utz Grimminger wrote: > 1. They Got Lost 8.504 I've long though "They Got Lost" was their best "commercial" offering, but "Lucky Ball and Chain" will always be my favorite TMBG song. -- Leo Bicknell - bicknell@ufp.org - CCIE 3440 PGP keys at http://www.ufp.org/~bicknell/ Read TMBG List - tmbg-list-request@tmbg.org, www.tmbg.org ------------------------------ End of tmbg-list Digest #65-25 ******************************