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Subject: tmbg-list Digest #65-25
tmbg-list Digest, Volume 65, Number 25
Sunday, 31 August 2003
Today's Topics:
TMBG: Re: Re: Re: My Man... Gently down the stream....
Re: TMBG: Re: Re: Re: My Man... Gently down the stream....
Re: TMBG: Re: Re: Re: My Man... Gently down the stream....
Re: TMBG: Re: Re: Re: My Man... Gently down the stream....
Re: TMBG: Re: Re: Re: My Man... Gently down the stream....
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From: "Olaf" <Rabidium@hotmail.com>
Subject: TMBG: Re: Re: Re: My Man... Gently down the stream....
Date: Sat, 30 Aug 2003 11:05:20 -0700
Message-ID: <000001c36f21$4676f1b0$12fe2f04@olafp0d413sb8n>
Hi! Happy Saturday!
> Wouldn't a lot of songs fit into more than one category (or
> species), though?
YEah, I suppose they would, it was just a thought.
> Was TMBG ever that commercial? Regardles, what is it about
> Mink Car that you think is a return to a more classic TMBG sound?
Yeah, I understand what you're saying, but the truth is, they were once
much more commercial than they are now. They used to do MTV, Radio
promotions, I mean they were viable to a much larger audience in the
early nineties. MC is I think a fairly obvious step back from the sound
of FS or JH. Many of the songs are reminiscent of Flood, Bangs,
Sombrero, My Man, WUFTM, and others to a lesser extent. They even went
back a used some producers from Flood. Even AMG noticed this shift in
their review, and you know if they noticed it, it's gotta be fairly
prominent.
But don't take my word, just listen to arrangements, programmed drums,
and mic choice on the disk in comparison to Flood or JH. Now I'm a
musician myself, so I look for these things, and I'm probably fairly
unique in that. People always tell me I find the strangest things in
songs, so this may be all in my head. But in my head I think I'm right!
> Of course, the latter was a single, and I remember hearing
> that they were going to make the former one as well, but I
> don't know that they ever did.
Well, Birdhouse was a single, Ana Ng Was a single, it's hard to find two
more obscure subjects for pop songs, or more obtuse lyrics to get there.
By comparison, Mislih is straightforward parody, and not a particularly
deep parody either. And it's certainly not as original a concept as
Istanbul or Crane. (Just listen to Heywood Banks' "The Music's Too Loud"
which is basically the same topic, and a similar song from 15 years
earlier, I'm sure there are others.) And boy does that drum track get
old. Bangs, on the other hand, is a unique and cute concept, though it's
not a very deep reading of the subject and musically it's very simple. I
don't think Singles have to be simpler songs than others. But I think
that's what they were going for with those two.
> I didn't think TMBG usually made albums with a market in
> mind, No! being a special case.
Well, I think it would be tough for any musician to make an album
without considering the market their shooting for. I think J and J have
been tailoring their sound since Lincoln. Notice the lack of country
songs since the Pink album. Or the lack of sampled voices. Actually, you
could probably nail the market for each album without thinking about it
too much. Let's see, Pink is for the New York Art Scene of the day; Linc
is a widening of that sound to a more mainstream level for college kids
with longer songs, straigter instrumentation. Flood is a mainstream read
of that sound, with a fairly single sound throughout, and a good
continuity song-to-song marketed to everyone. A18 is an adult read of
that flood sound, with some paranoia thrown in, aiming for the same
Flood market, but missing it in an attempt to Grow the sound. JH is an
attempt to market to college kids in 1994. Grungy and Bandy, it mostly
succeeds on this front. Check Stompbox for the hardest sound they've
done (I think). FS is trying to reassert themselves to a more adult
market, (Longer songs, shorter setlist, only 'nice' songs) and only
succeeding sometimes. Finally Mink Car is an attempt to sheen up the
image, market to yuppie hipsters (yo, yo yo yo.) who like shag rugs,
soft ballads and wierd musical experiments. I don't know the sales of
that record, but I don't honestly think enough people like that exist to
make it successful. Just play anyone you know AFK then Fang, and see
what their reaction is. I bet you 99% of people don't go "Oh, Cool, what
an interesting contrast!".
So, How'd I do? Sounds pretty good to me, I'd like to hear your
thoughts. Actually, I'd be happy just to know that anyone finished
reading my treatise! Send me an email if you get this far! I'm going to
the beach.
-Olaf
Oh, boy am I gonna get crap for calling FS all 'nice' songs.
"But there's ADVIL in it! ADVIL! That's a drug!"
------------------------------
From: Kaylum@aol.com
Message-ID: <195.1f0b4826.2c82445c@aol.com>
Date: Sat, 30 Aug 2003 14:18:04 EDT
Subject: Re: TMBG: Re: Re: Re: My Man... Gently down the stream....
Hey, Olaf! I agree that Mink Car does sort of have a lot in common with
Flood. In fact, and you might know this, but "Hovering Sombrero" was actually
written during the Flood era. As for hipsters digging the contrast between songs
like "Another First Kiss" and "I've Got a Fang," that's true to some extent,
but it can also be an off-putting liability for others. I have a friend who
works in a record store who says when he plahed Mink Car and AFK came on, people
started asking him who that was and where they could get that cd. Then when
IGAF came on, they refused to believe it was the same band, hehe.
Good job on the analysis!
Kay
[Attachment omitted, unknown MIME type or encoding (text/html)]
Olaf:
>Hi! Happy Saturday!
And a happy Saturday to you, too.
> > Was TMBG ever that commercial? Regardles, what is it about
> > Mink Car that you think is a return to a more classic TMBG sound?
>
>Yeah, I understand what you're saying, but the truth is, they were once
>much more commercial than they are now. They used to do MTV, Radio
>promotions, I mean they were viable to a much larger audience in the
>early nineties.
But how much of that is due to a change in TMBG's sound? MTV, especially,
was more open to less mainstream music back in the day, and I kind of get
the feeling that their waning interest in TMBG was more a result of a change
on their part than on TMBG's, combined with the fact that it's rare for
commercial TV or radio to promote a band for very long, unless that band
sells millions of records, and sometimes not even then. It might be that
the mainstream abandoned TMBG, rather than the other way 'round.
>MC is I think a fairly obvious step back from the sound
>of FS or JH. Many of the songs are reminiscent of Flood, Bangs,
>Sombrero, My Man, WUFTM, and others to a lesser extent. They even went
>back a used some producers from Flood. Even AMG noticed this shift in
>their review, and you know if they noticed it, it's gotta be fairly
>prominent.
Yeah, I think you might have a point there.
>By comparison, Mislih is straightforward parody, and not a particularly
>deep parody either.
How much of that is due to the dance beats, though? I don't think it came
across as parody before they were added. Even with the dance beats, though,
I think calling it "a parody of dance music" is dismissive; there's more to
it than that. It wouldn't have been my choice for a single, but I don't
think Mink Car really has an obvious single the way TMBG's early albums did.
> > I didn't think TMBG usually made albums with a market in
> > mind, No! being a special case.
>
>Well, I think it would be tough for any musician to make an album
>without considering the market their shooting for. I think J and J have
>been tailoring their sound since Lincoln. Notice the lack of country
>songs since the Pink album.
Cowtown? Lucky Ball And Chain? Unrelated Thing? Counterfeit Faker?
(Granted, the latter was never released on something that was actually in
music stores.)
>Actually, you could probably nail the market for each album without
>thinking about it
>too much.
Probably, but how much of that is intentional? I don't know; maybe there's
more marketing involved than I want to think, but I like to believe the
Johns when they say they primarily do what they want.
>Finally Mink Car is an attempt to sheen up the
>image, market to yuppie hipsters (yo, yo yo yo.) who like shag rugs,
>soft ballads and wierd musical experiments. I don't know the sales of
>that record, but I don't honestly think enough people like that exist to
>make it successful.
I'm sure plenty of them EXIST, but they probably don't buy TMBG records.
>Send me an email if you get this far!
I did.
Nathan
DinnerBell@tmbg.org
http://vovat.blogspot.com/
_________________________________________________________________
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From owner-tmbg-list@tmbg.org Sat Aug 30 21:21:59 2003
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Date: Sun, 31 Aug 2003 03:22:26 +0100
From: Utz Grimminger <grimminger@mandoline.de>
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To: tmbg-list@tmbg.org
Subject: Re: TMBG: Re: Re: Re: My Man... Gently down the stream....
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Reply-To: Utz Grimminger <grimminger@mandoline.de>
Hi,
>> Was TMBG ever that commercial? Regardles, what is it about
>> Mink Car that you think is a return to a more classic TMBG sound?
> Yeah, I understand what you're saying, but the truth is, they were
> once much more commercial than they are now.
First thought that came to my mind: what is commercial at all? The
stuff that sells best?
I have to confess I'm a little into statistics, and so I did some. (If
you are bored by statistics, skip this mail.) My question was: what
TMBG record sells best? I found that amazon.de gives a sales rank for
their articles, so I clicked my way through and compiled a list of
TMBG's best sold records (as recorded by amazon.de, 03-08-31). Here it
is:
Title amazon.de Sales Rank
1. They Got Lost 8.504
2. Boss Of Me (EP) 21.604
3. Flood 22.146
4. Dial-A-Song 25.498
5. Lincoln 26.138
6. In Holidayland (EP) 35.795
7. Factory Showroom 39.019
8. Severe Tire Damage 44.940
9. Then 46.598
10. Mink Car 52.091
11. No! 52.094
12. Pink Album 54.661
13. Man It's So Loud (EP) 63.589
14. Apollo 18 120.515
15. Miscellaneous T 120.896
16. John Henry 142.716
A few remarks:
- You might think TGL does quite good because it's only
available online - in fact, TGL is in stores in Germany (while No! is
not - never seen it at least).
- Apollo 18 is misspelled on amazon.de, so it may be that some people
trying to buy it may not find it.
- Lincoln, Pink Album and Misc T are of course doubled by Then.
- And, of course, new stuff is usually supposed to sell better than
old stuff. On the other hand: we didn't have brand new stuff in the
last months, so this effect should not be too big for this list.
If you agree that stuff that sells best is the most commercial stuff,
"They Got Lost" is the most commercial TMBG album for the german
audience - and "John Henry" the most uncommercial album. I suppose it
was intended to be the other way round :-)
My thoughts on it: A lot depends on what concurrence you have for a
special market. JH aiming at a college rock audience? I agree. There
are lots of bands aiming at that market, and JH simply is not
oustanding for it. The market for...err...unusual songs with unusual
sounds and unusual topics is much smaller? I agree as well. But IMHO
this is what TMBG are best at, their work for that market is truly
outstanding.
All the best,
Utz
From owner-tmbg-list@tmbg.org Sat Aug 30 21:57:10 2003
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Date: Sat, 30 Aug 2003 21:57:09 -0400
From: Leo Bicknell <bicknell@ufp.org>
To: tmbg-list@tmbg.org
Subject: Re: TMBG: Re: Re: Re: My Man... Gently down the stream....
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In a message written on Sun, Aug 31, 2003 at 03:22:26AM +0100, Utz Grimminger wrote:
> 1. They Got Lost 8.504
I've long though "They Got Lost" was their best "commercial" offering,
but "Lucky Ball and Chain" will always be my favorite TMBG song.
--
Leo Bicknell - bicknell@ufp.org - CCIE 3440
PGP keys at http://www.ufp.org/~bicknell/
Read TMBG List - tmbg-list-request@tmbg.org, www.tmbg.org
------------------------------
End of tmbg-list Digest #65-25
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